C2S4ME just posted here but I now see the post is gone, why is that? Anyway this is what he posted:
My response to that is you say they are perfectly acceptable, but to get to range 3 you are in the 7700-7900 RPM range.

 

And if my rev limiter doesn’t kick in until approximately 7,550 rpm that is only 150 rpm away from 7,700 rpm. Not much room for error.

I wasn’t happy with my post and was changing it. It’s not that I say range 3 ignitions are okay, but Porsche says they are okay and they will not cause you any grief when it comes to warranty repairs on any part of the drive train.

Here is my edited post in my response to all the misinformation in this thread.

I don’t know where all this misinformation gets started; even the dealers seem to get in on the action. According to PCNA only ignitions in ranges 4, 5 and 6 are of any concern. You can get ignitions in ranges 1, 2 and 3 simply by accelerating (in other words no mechanical over-rev is needed). According to PCNA ignitions in ranges 1, 2 and 3 are perfectly acceptable and will cause no mechanical problems to either the engine or gearbox. Excluding a missed shift how would over revving the engine adversely affect the gearbox anyway?

I have the Durametric software along with the USB interface and my ‘07 C2S is just shy of 15,000 miles and currently has 10,357 range 1 ignitions, 359 range 2 and 26 range 3 and I have never missed a shift, the gearbox has not blown up due to the range 2 (or range 3) over-revs and shifts perfectly into all gears and the engine runs flawlessly and burns far less oil than many others have recorded on the various Porsche enthusiasts forums (I use approximately 1 quart every 5,000 miles).

Here are the rev ranges where ignitions are recorded for the 997. I don’t know if they are the same or slightly higher for the X51 equipped Carrera S. My rev-limiter kicks in north of 7,500 rpm (approximately 7,550 rpm) and I have recorded range 1 and 2 over-revs without hitting the rev limiter.

Range 1: 7300-7500 RPM
Range 2: 7500-7700 RPM
Range 3: 7700-7900 RPM
Range 4: 7900-8400 RPM
Range 5: 8400-9500 RPM
Range 6: 9500-11000 RPM

I hope that is more clear.

 

Thanks for the post, but I'm not clear on a few things. You say that no mechanical over-rev is needed to get to range 3, but that does not mean a range 3 ignition count of say 60 didn't happen as a result of a mechanical over-rev, right? Or are you saying it's moot because PCNA doesn't care how you got to range 3, so long as you have nothing in range 4-6?

Also not that I doubt you, but can you tell me where I can find an official and legally binding policy from PCNA on this issue? I would love to buy a car knowing that what the constraints are on how they honor their warranties, and I think they owe it to their customers to be 110% clear on those constraints. It's not enough to ask my service manager, because those people can be gone tomorrow and then I'm stuck holding the bag.

The other question is, if there's so much misinformation on this issue, I wonder if regardless of whether it's true if there's sort of a negative financial impact on resale for cars that don't have perfect DME scans in ranges 2 and 3, as well as 4-6. I have seen scans on cars with ~6k miles that had zero ignitions for all ranges but range 1, so I know it's not an absolute rule that these over revs are on every driven car.

 

I can’t really answer your questions. I would contact a factory authorized Porsche dealer and see if they can help you out as to PCNA’s official in writing warranty policies.

I had my first DME scan done at the Porsche dealer where I purchased the car and at that time I already had range 1, 2 and 3 over-revs and was told they were not a problem. I was told at that time that only ignitions in ranges 4, 5 and 6 could cause warranty problems. I have also seen this confirmed by Peter Smith in the Tech Q&A in Porsche Panorama Magazine and in the Tech Forum in Excellence Magazine.

As far as resale, I suppose range 2 and 3 ignitions might scare off some buyers. Keep in mind that the DME records ignitions, not revolutions. There are 3 ignitions per revolution in a 6 cylinder four stroke engine. My 26 range 3 ignitions means the engine was above 7,700 (or approximately 150 rpm over the rev limiter) for 8 and 2/3’s revolutions or roughly 1/16 of a second. I don’t plan on changing the way I drive my Porsche for fear of reduced resale. I may already be an old man at age 60 but I’m not quite ready to start driving like an old lady just yet.

 

C2S4me -- Maybe your Rge 2 & 3 overrevs are due to the higher red line in your x51 motor compared to the lower red line in a non-x51 motor?

 

Does this mean that in the 15,000 miles your car has been driven, you've started/stopped the engine some 11,000 times?

That's what an "ignition" represents right? Engine off, turn key, engine on?

Or does it mean your engine has ventured into redline some 11,000 times?

 

Good point. Even my selling dealer has never been able to confirm what red line is or if the rev ranges are higher for X51. All they would say is ranges 1, 2 and 3 would not cause me any warranty problems.

 

Not even close on both counts. A 6 cylinder four stroke engine has 3 ignitions for every revolution. At 7,300 rpm there are approximately 122 revolutions per second or 366 ignitions per second. With the number of over-revs in question that would work out to approximately 28 seconds during approximately 335 hours of operation where the engine was in the safe over-rev range.

 

Lots of chatter about over-revs...and I agree as long as there are no numbers in ranges 4 through 6 there should be no issues. Using your math, a reading of 26 in range 3 equates to 0.07 seconds - 7/100's of a second. I guess we could always leave the cars in the garage...that would ensure no over-revs.

 

I had no idea that they had defined that many levels over over-revving.

Range 6: 9500-11000 RPM

Is that when your engine turns into a grenade?

 

You ought to contact Scott Slausen at Softronic or Todd Knighton at Protomotive. I'd bet either of them really knows the mechanical significance of over-revs in the different categories, the meaning of the categories and could explain all that in terms that can be understood by lay-folks like us. And, when you can explain it, please post, because I've wondered what the ranges mean and what the significance of the number of ignitions is and what that is really measuring, too.

 

Ranges 1-3 are just 200 RPM's apart in a spread for each range just for mainly info on how you are bumping the rev limiter. Ranges 1-3 are common for just winding up to the rev limiter at 7200 , inertia will generate up to range 3 at this time. This will depend on your driving.

Range 4 is 500 rpm and encompasses two different types of engines, ones that red line at 8200 and those that shouldn't. Basically all the 987 and 997 other than the X51 or GT3 that red line at 7200. This range shows a ID on which engine or mod is in the car between the two.

Range 5 is considered the gray or warranty void area for both engines in question and is generally not good as far as Porsche is concerned.

Range 6 Is a void of warranty and encompasses the 10200 rev limit. The 10200 is the point that all the 987 and 997 engines will succumb to valve float. The 10200 has a separate minimum classification in the DME. After this range is tripped it will record ANY rev above it in the max Rev limit. This is read out in the VAL or Vehicle analysis report. Unfortunately most Dealers do not understand it either.

I should also mention that the 996 and 986 had a range 1 and 2 with the same 10200 max.


Best,
Scott Slauson
PCA Technical Expert

 

Thanks Scott - the inertia explanation helps me understand how you can get to ranges 2 and 3 if the rev limiter kicks in at range 1. Most of the data folks have posted for ranges 2 and 3 are of a very short duration which now makes sense.

 

Cool thanks for the clarification!
That makes much more sense

 

Concur. I'm in the same situation. I actually DRIVE my Porsche (have been since 1974) and actually have 1 in range 3,--big deal. These are Porsches, not Toyotas.

Dan