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Driving School: Porsche or Skip Barber or ?...and recomendations?

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Old Feb 4, 2009 | 09:01 PM
  #16  
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Porsche DE Days at Laguna Seca......

I had the privilege of attending two Porsche DE Days at Laguna Seca......great instruction and track time: $250.00 to $300.00, incredable deal.

Also, AX are great with instruction.

I would milk these first, then step up to a Bondurant or Russell
 
Old Feb 4, 2009 | 10:32 PM
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Originally Posted by JohnM
But, at the porsche school, will they turn the traction control off??? Most manufacturer schools don't, and that is why there is no damage liability. I am always nervous at bondurant when they tell you there is a $5,000 deductible on the insurance you take out.
Hi John, the course uses three different "tracks " One is a autocross and the other is a skid pad. The larger track is with the 911's and is at a lot higher speed. It is the main track for the course and most of your driving is on it. For this introduction they dont turn off the PSM. A few times i came out of corner too fast or maybe too late and the PSM saved me. Once it was raining and it was truly amazing.....saved me big time. The instructors indicated that on the big track there was no advantage to turning it off . I know some people disagree but at the introductory level of high speed track driving it probably was good insurance. I was glad it was there. It gave me confidence when driving on track days as i now know what it feels like when your PSM kicks in at high speed. When I do track days I leave it on ,however I turn it off on autocross days. At the course you can reduce your liabiltiy substantially by buying the extra insurance for an additional $100 a day.
I had such a great time two years ago , I'm going back again this year with 4 friends....and I live in Western Canada and have to convert to US dollars so it is a long way but I think worth it esp if you have a 911.
 
Old Feb 5, 2009 | 07:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Lockie
Hi John, the course uses three different "tracks " One is a autocross and the other is a skid pad. The larger track is with the 911's and is at a lot higher speed. It is the main track for the course and most of your driving is on it. For this introduction they dont turn off the PSM. A few times i came out of corner too fast or maybe too late and the PSM saved me. Once it was raining and it was truly amazing.....saved me big time. The instructors indicated that on the big track there was no advantage to turning it off . I know some people disagree but at the introductory level of high speed track driving it probably was good insurance. I was glad it was there. It gave me confidence when driving on track days as i now know what it feels like when your PSM kicks in at high speed. When I do track days I leave it on ,however I turn it off on autocross days. At the course you can reduce your liabiltiy substantially by buying the extra insurance for an additional $100 a day.
I had such a great time two years ago , I'm going back again this year with 4 friends....and I live in Western Canada and have to convert to US dollars so it is a long way but I think worth it esp if you have a 911.
To add to this...

the instructors often said the key is to get the car to your limits (and the cars) without having PSM kick in.

PSM, when it engages is telling you that you did something that can be improved on.
 
Old Feb 5, 2009 | 01:14 PM
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PSDS

It is the benchmark
Nothing else comes close as far as Vehicles, Instructors and the Track!!!

You will not be disappointed!

BTW you can fly to Birmingham from Burbank!
 
Old Feb 6, 2009 | 12:03 AM
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Don't bother with racing schools at first. Over priced not enough time most time it's a giant parade lap when your new, and well the entire performance driving thing it might not be the fit for you. Best way to "improve" your car control join SCCA or whatever racing association there is in your area I think SCCA and NASA is popular in your vicinity. You get to meet great people and make lots of friends they will teach you many things for FREE. More then often you will actually find a handful of actual instructors from said schools at these clubs having fun. Or better yet like me and many others get driving advice from national champs that you compete with or that show up to fine tune their cars. The price of admission is much cheaper, and you'll have more fun. Once you really get into the swing of things then do the school thing. I'm not blasting schools at all actually. But if your low on the experience level you might be more frustrated then able to enjoy things. Build a base first then go for it.

Trust me after your first time around the track you will think what have I been doing buying all these toys and driving like a fool on the streets. Then the sickness begins, you'll start waking up early on weekends, spend long nights changing out pads and fluids, contimplate building a race car. Your garage has multiple sets of tires and wheels oh it's one sickness I don't want a cure for.
 
Old Feb 6, 2009 | 06:25 AM
  #21  
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While Slidingk1 makes an interesting point, I would disagree. Yes, you would show up to a racing school with no experience but then again you show up with fewer bad habits. You do not need any experience to do well at a racing school. I use Skip Barber has my example because it is the one I know. I can talk about HPDEs as well because I have done at least 10 with all different tracks and clubs (Audi, PCA and BMW).

At Skip Barber, I did the 3 day racing school (with no experience), the 2 day advanced and ran a full race series in 2007. I continue to go back for the instructors, the people and the easy of getting into a car and going fast. The 3 day is $3,999 but they have been affected by the economy and are offering deals. While there is no crash damage on the three day, if you crash you are usually out. Everything after the 3 day school has a limited liability. That being said the program is geared to bring you up to speed slowly at your pace. There are spins but usually no crashes. You will be in the class room discussing physics and theory. Then you will get in the car and drive around an autocross track. They will do braking, heel-toe exercises, lead follows around the track in a van then in your car. As you drive your laps, you are called in to get radio feedback from instructors that are sitting at crucial corners. The instructors are racecar drivers or ex-racecar drivers. My instructors were Jim Pace (Rolex winner, etc), Gerardo Bonilla (IMSA Lites Champion, etc), and Joe Foster (Dempsey Racing), to name just a few. I believe that there is no comparison between a DE and a racing school.

At the DEs I have been to, the instructors have normal jobs and do instructing a couple of times a year at a DE. Some have been very good and others not so good. I went for a ride in an instructor’s car once and he was not even heel-toeing. They do not have the people to place instructors at corners around the track.

At a racing school the class size is limited. You will get a lot of attention. At a DE you will sit around and wait for your turn to drive. Usually 3-4 20-30 minutes sessions.

I have not done a SCCA or NASA driver’s education day so I am not really sure about what they do. Whose car you use or anything about it. It could very well be an excellent program but I think a racing school will bring you up to speed much faster. Skip Barber has been doing it since the 80’s. Ask the instructors at the SCCA DE and the national champions where they learned to race.

It all depends upon your goal. Both will be a ton of fun. The racing school is more structured and will get you to being fast faster. My suggestion is to do the 3 day school. You will not be disappointed. Then run the 2 day advanced. After the 2 day you think you are the fastest thing on 4 wheels. Then go to a lapping or practice day. Better yet do a practice day and a race weekend. You will start at the back on the pack and realize what fast really is. And you will have a ball doing it.

You are more than welcome to PM me if you want more info. I do not work for Skip Barber but go back quite a bit because of how much I learn every time I am there.
 
Old Feb 6, 2009 | 07:25 AM
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Just thought of something else. Go to the forum link below and ask them what they think you should do. The site is not owned or run by Skip Barber it is the community of Skippy racers (customers).

http://www.teamjuicyracing.com/index.php

Feel free to also check out a picture of my first win at Watkins Glen (May 2007). Second race ever.
http://www.teamjuicyracing.com/forums/gallery/showimage.php?i=2563&c=39
 
Old Feb 7, 2009 | 09:14 AM
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SammyRusso,
Forum will not let me send PM back until I have 15 posts
Send me another PM with your e-mail or phone if you want to discuss.
 
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