report from a Newbie 997S
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report from a Newbie 997S
Hey Guys (and gals?)
Well, I've driven my '06 997 S (bought like new with 7K miles and 3.5 yrs warranty! at a great recession price) for almost a month now....
Thought I'd share my impressions...
First off, like many here, I was a BMW guy. 4 BMW's. I learned stick on a 5 series. I was VERY impressed with BMW, but when the recession hit and allowed me to afford a 911S (which I'd been trying to afford for a year...) I BIT.
So here's some impressions from a total newbie:
The manual transmission in a Porsche is the greatest thing I have ever felt in my life. The precision. The mechanical feeling of a primal machine... yet the feeling of something 'perfected' is orgasmic. the sound of the engine, upon ignition, and driving, is harmonic, symphonic, bone-churning.
The comfort level of the car is great.
The steering is more luxury--feeling than expected, that is, I do not 'feel' as much as I did in a BMW 03 5 series, through the wheel. But I feel MORE through all my senses, so I do not miss anything.
Here's my real impression. In an 03 540, I could throw the car into turns, 'mindlessly' that is, I could just BLAM into turns, and my main job was to hold the wheel steady, and the car would 'do the rest'.
When I did that in the 911S, I discovered quickly that this is not a car that you drive 'mindlessly.' The back end slid in a fast hairpin. No worries, but it was a wake up call. I thought, okay, this ain't my 5 series. I still liked it better than my 5 series, but I realized that a Porsche does not 'drive for you.'
I never realized a BMW 'drove for you' til I drove a 911S. Now... with that said, all it did was inspire me. There was no sense of the car being anything but extraordinary, planted, and volcanically fast... but there was the knowledge that this car needs to be 'learned'. And I am still learning how this car drives. But again, it's a thrill and a privilege. The 'gravity' of the car blows my mind. It is so primal and grounded. But each time I hit the twisties, I take it at least 10 mph slower than I used to, to learn the way the car feels, it's balance... it's weight distribution. How it will 'throw'.
What an amazing 'class' to take, learning the personality of this unreal machine.
And it feels more like a hand-built machine than anything I've ever driven. Raw. I am actually not ready to use the Chrono, it makes the car too fast for me at this time.
But I'm glad I have it, for later.
The thing I love the most is just running through the gears, the gearbox is like a metal rod in slots. Every shift is so tactile, with such punch.
And that SOUND. Aaaaa---aaaaaahhhh!!!
Well, these are my newbie impressions. A Porsche does not drive for you. I believe you have to learn a Porsche's personality, but what could be more rewarding???
I remember my friend, who has had ten or more 911's said to me, he loved the 911 because 'you never know what it will do.' That statement comes back to me again and again, but only in the most intriguing sense. There is a mystery to the car. It has a soul. The car is unreal, incredible, amazing! But the mystery is in what I perceive to be in the primal machine. It is not a computer on wheels. It is a Driver's car. You must Drive it.
I'll let you know when I add 10 mph to the twisties... with pleasure.
Well, I've driven my '06 997 S (bought like new with 7K miles and 3.5 yrs warranty! at a great recession price) for almost a month now....
Thought I'd share my impressions...
First off, like many here, I was a BMW guy. 4 BMW's. I learned stick on a 5 series. I was VERY impressed with BMW, but when the recession hit and allowed me to afford a 911S (which I'd been trying to afford for a year...) I BIT.
So here's some impressions from a total newbie:
The manual transmission in a Porsche is the greatest thing I have ever felt in my life. The precision. The mechanical feeling of a primal machine... yet the feeling of something 'perfected' is orgasmic. the sound of the engine, upon ignition, and driving, is harmonic, symphonic, bone-churning.
The comfort level of the car is great.
The steering is more luxury--feeling than expected, that is, I do not 'feel' as much as I did in a BMW 03 5 series, through the wheel. But I feel MORE through all my senses, so I do not miss anything.
Here's my real impression. In an 03 540, I could throw the car into turns, 'mindlessly' that is, I could just BLAM into turns, and my main job was to hold the wheel steady, and the car would 'do the rest'.
When I did that in the 911S, I discovered quickly that this is not a car that you drive 'mindlessly.' The back end slid in a fast hairpin. No worries, but it was a wake up call. I thought, okay, this ain't my 5 series. I still liked it better than my 5 series, but I realized that a Porsche does not 'drive for you.'
I never realized a BMW 'drove for you' til I drove a 911S. Now... with that said, all it did was inspire me. There was no sense of the car being anything but extraordinary, planted, and volcanically fast... but there was the knowledge that this car needs to be 'learned'. And I am still learning how this car drives. But again, it's a thrill and a privilege. The 'gravity' of the car blows my mind. It is so primal and grounded. But each time I hit the twisties, I take it at least 10 mph slower than I used to, to learn the way the car feels, it's balance... it's weight distribution. How it will 'throw'.
What an amazing 'class' to take, learning the personality of this unreal machine.
And it feels more like a hand-built machine than anything I've ever driven. Raw. I am actually not ready to use the Chrono, it makes the car too fast for me at this time.
But I'm glad I have it, for later.
The thing I love the most is just running through the gears, the gearbox is like a metal rod in slots. Every shift is so tactile, with such punch.
And that SOUND. Aaaaa---aaaaaahhhh!!!
Well, these are my newbie impressions. A Porsche does not drive for you. I believe you have to learn a Porsche's personality, but what could be more rewarding???
I remember my friend, who has had ten or more 911's said to me, he loved the 911 because 'you never know what it will do.' That statement comes back to me again and again, but only in the most intriguing sense. There is a mystery to the car. It has a soul. The car is unreal, incredible, amazing! But the mystery is in what I perceive to be in the primal machine. It is not a computer on wheels. It is a Driver's car. You must Drive it.
I'll let you know when I add 10 mph to the twisties... with pleasure.
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all true...glad you are enjoying the experience. They are very rewarding cars.
All that said..the newer generation cars are alot less prone to getting away from an uninitiated driver than the earlier 911s.
There is probably alot more speed in that car than you can even imagine at this point.
All that said..the newer generation cars are alot less prone to getting away from an uninitiated driver than the earlier 911s.
There is probably alot more speed in that car than you can even imagine at this point.
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Most of us will never find the limits of this car. Keep pushing it, there is no way that a 5 series BMW will corner better then a 997S. I have seen a number of M5's on the track and I go by them like they are standing still!
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Congrats on your purchase. I have owned a couple of E46 M3's, ZO6, and a 997S, currently have a Cayman S. I can appreciate your orientation to the 911 platform. I can't say I noticed the night/day difference in handling you describe, but the difference is certainly there. A lot of folks complain about the amount of on-throttle understeer in the 997, but I actually found that rather friendly, once learning to deal with it. If you are on throttle early, as the car pushes wide, it takes only a gentle lift to get some rotation started, and then you can usually be hard on throttle through the rest of the turn, since that same awesome rear grip that causes the early push, will really get you out of the turn fast. As you noticed, you learn to be careful with trail braking or sudden throttle lifts. It's a great car, have fun!
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thanks for feedback. I'm definitely not suggesting a 5 series 'handles' better. I'm saying, a 5 series 'drives for you.' And by the way, I'm definitely not referring to any current 5. Mine was an o3 and for the record, in my humble O, a vastly superior car to the current stuff.
BUT anyway! What I am really hoping you P-car Vets will share with me is more along the lines of elh0102's post, which is much appreciated. I would not say it is a night/day difference, I am not suggesting that. In fact, if you were to ask me what would happen in those two cars with equally talented drivers... well... we all know the answer. BUT I need to begin to understand the car, what I'm behind the wheel of. I know it will all come down to more driving but feel free to talk to me like a 2nd grader when explaining any technical stuff. I'm not too proud! And really will appreciate insights, experiences and explanations about these glorious machines. And how to approach turns, uneven pavement, whatever you would like to show me.
For instance--OKAY! I admit it! What it 'on-throttle understeer?' What do you mean by 'gentle lift' ? I hope you guys can deal with my xtreme newbieness.
BUT anyway! What I am really hoping you P-car Vets will share with me is more along the lines of elh0102's post, which is much appreciated. I would not say it is a night/day difference, I am not suggesting that. In fact, if you were to ask me what would happen in those two cars with equally talented drivers... well... we all know the answer. BUT I need to begin to understand the car, what I'm behind the wheel of. I know it will all come down to more driving but feel free to talk to me like a 2nd grader when explaining any technical stuff. I'm not too proud! And really will appreciate insights, experiences and explanations about these glorious machines. And how to approach turns, uneven pavement, whatever you would like to show me.
For instance--OKAY! I admit it! What it 'on-throttle understeer?' What do you mean by 'gentle lift' ? I hope you guys can deal with my xtreme newbieness.
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thanks for feedback. I'm definitely not suggesting a 5 series 'handles' better. I'm saying, a 5 series 'drives for you.' And by the way, I'm definitely not referring to any current 5. Mine was an o3 and for the record, in my humble O, a vastly superior car to the current stuff.
BUT anyway! What I am really hoping you P-car Vets will share with me is more along the lines of elh0102's post, which is much appreciated. I would not say it is a night/day difference, I am not suggesting that. In fact, if you were to ask me what would happen in those two cars with equally talented drivers... well... we all know the answer. BUT I need to begin to understand the car, what I'm behind the wheel of. I know it will all come down to more driving but feel free to talk to me like a 2nd grader when explaining any technical stuff. I'm not too proud! And really will appreciate insights, experiences and explanations about these glorious machines. And how to approach turns, uneven pavement, whatever you would like to show me.
For instance--OKAY! I admit it! What it 'on-throttle understeer?' What do you mean by 'gentle lift' ? I hope you guys can deal with my xtreme newbieness.
BUT anyway! What I am really hoping you P-car Vets will share with me is more along the lines of elh0102's post, which is much appreciated. I would not say it is a night/day difference, I am not suggesting that. In fact, if you were to ask me what would happen in those two cars with equally talented drivers... well... we all know the answer. BUT I need to begin to understand the car, what I'm behind the wheel of. I know it will all come down to more driving but feel free to talk to me like a 2nd grader when explaining any technical stuff. I'm not too proud! And really will appreciate insights, experiences and explanations about these glorious machines. And how to approach turns, uneven pavement, whatever you would like to show me.
For instance--OKAY! I admit it! What it 'on-throttle understeer?' What do you mean by 'gentle lift' ? I hope you guys can deal with my xtreme newbieness.
The current 911, with its very large rubber in the rear, along with its rear weight bias, generates fantastic rear traction. In a turn, that translates to, effectively, steering with the rear wheels when under heavy throttle application, which is the on-throttle understeer. Uncorrected, the car will simply push straight ahead; not all bad, at least you see what you are going to hit! Releasing, or lifting the throttle will transfer enough weight to the front axle to allow the front tires some grip, thus the car will begin to turn. At that point, you should be able to immediately return to heavy throttle. If you jump totally off the throttle for long, the rear weight can generate oversteer, otherwise known as a loose condition, and the rear will break traction, often resulting in a spin. In any car, and especially a rear engine car, this quickly becomes a very difficult situation, and regaining control is often not possible.
Any change in any of the many variables changes everything else. Again, driving schools are well worth their cost, and a ton of fun. You will learn more in one day with a good instructor than ever on your own.
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I am a newbie too and i this post helps me make sense of what i was feeling when driving the 911. granted mine is the awd, i felt the weight dynamics too. thanks
I have only gone through twisties 2 times but i can say that the second time i got a lot better at it. i felt like i understood the characteristic of the car more. Porsche 911 is a fantastic car.
I have only gone through twisties 2 times but i can say that the second time i got a lot better at it. i felt like i understood the characteristic of the car more. Porsche 911 is a fantastic car.
Sorry. I was not aware of your experience level; I know this stuff can be a bit foreign. Most importantly, join some local clubs and participate in their track schools. You will never learn these things on the street, nor should you try. Although the skills you learn will serve you well in certain street situations.
The current 911, with its very large rubber in the rear, along with its rear weight bias, generates fantastic rear traction. In a turn, that translates to, effectively, steering with the rear wheels when under heavy throttle application, which is the on-throttle understeer. Uncorrected, the car will simply push straight ahead; not all bad, at least you see what you are going to hit! Releasing, or lifting the throttle will transfer enough weight to the front axle to allow the front tires some grip, thus the car will begin to turn. At that point, you should be able to immediately return to heavy throttle. If you jump totally off the throttle for long, the rear weight can generate oversteer, otherwise known as a loose condition, and the rear will break traction, often resulting in a spin. In any car, and especially a rear engine car, this quickly becomes a very difficult situation, and regaining control is often not possible.
Any change in any of the many variables changes everything else. Again, driving schools are well worth their cost, and a ton of fun. You will learn more in one day with a good instructor than ever on your own.
The current 911, with its very large rubber in the rear, along with its rear weight bias, generates fantastic rear traction. In a turn, that translates to, effectively, steering with the rear wheels when under heavy throttle application, which is the on-throttle understeer. Uncorrected, the car will simply push straight ahead; not all bad, at least you see what you are going to hit! Releasing, or lifting the throttle will transfer enough weight to the front axle to allow the front tires some grip, thus the car will begin to turn. At that point, you should be able to immediately return to heavy throttle. If you jump totally off the throttle for long, the rear weight can generate oversteer, otherwise known as a loose condition, and the rear will break traction, often resulting in a spin. In any car, and especially a rear engine car, this quickly becomes a very difficult situation, and regaining control is often not possible.
Any change in any of the many variables changes everything else. Again, driving schools are well worth their cost, and a ton of fun. You will learn more in one day with a good instructor than ever on your own.
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report from a Newbie 997S
From the way you write you're a great candidate to find a good experienced professional racer/instructor (preferrably Porsche of course and not just a DE guy, although they are great) and pay for a couple of sessions. I'd almost guarantee you'd add 20mph to whatever 'twisties' you are talking about. Then, when you've saved some sheckels, you can start messing around with the suspension and some power mods and have a real orgasm.
From the way you write you're a great candidate to find a good experienced professional racer/instructor (preferrably Porsche of course and not just a DE guy, although they are great) and pay for a couple of sessions. I'd almost guarantee you'd add 20mph to whatever 'twisties' you are talking about. Then, when you've saved some sheckels, you can start messing around with the suspension and some power mods and have a real orgasm.
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Congrats on your purchase, DJS. I find it very satisifying that the 911 model/shape has been around for 40+ years. Unlike a lot of car models that go away after a few years. Porsche has been refining the 911 year and year - it just keeps getting better. I agree - the engine sound is so beautiful and so recognizable.
It may be soon to start with some mods. I found the greatest improvement (cornering) is a coil over system, lowering the car, and getting it aligned and corner balanced. Wow - talk about a car being on rails! For more HP - go straight to supercharging.
It may be soon to start with some mods. I found the greatest improvement (cornering) is a coil over system, lowering the car, and getting it aligned and corner balanced. Wow - talk about a car being on rails! For more HP - go straight to supercharging.
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Thanks for feedback
Appreciate the kind words about my writing too.
I'll save this thread and refer to it for mods eventually too.
So... can I get a recommendation for driving instruction in Los Angeles, preferably close the Valley if possible?
I'll save this thread and refer to it for mods eventually too.
So... can I get a recommendation for driving instruction in Los Angeles, preferably close the Valley if possible?
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I 2nd the others about signing-up for DE (Driver's Education) or High Performance Driving Event (HPDE) or anything that will allow you to learn your car in a safe environment (i.e. the track). You should sign-up with your local Porsche Club, they are organizing track days that will put a big smile on your face, everytime you go... Trust me, the 911 is a real treat!
Trying to even get close to the limit of your car on public roads is very, I mean very dangerous for you and others...
PS: I'll be at Buttonwillow June 6 & 7 for a track Week-End. If you feel like driving there, pm me and we can hook-up. I'll give you a ride along...
Trying to even get close to the limit of your car on public roads is very, I mean very dangerous for you and others...
PS: I'll be at Buttonwillow June 6 & 7 for a track Week-End. If you feel like driving there, pm me and we can hook-up. I'll give you a ride along...
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Thanks!
Great invitation! I know I will do that one day soon, but don't know if I'll be there the next go 'round. I will definitely join a Porsche club, that seems like the perfect plan. Thanks to everyone for all the feedback.
