I bought the base Carrrera because I plan to use it as DD, not on the track. And even as a DD, the car is way over-qualified in terms of performance. I just like the way it drives, look, etc. I've already owned more powerful cars and for my use, there's just no point anymore, except for bragging rights - been there, done that, too.

You are right bucky, a base 997.2 even on the track, for many, is plenty of car. No need to justify it.

 

If the purpose is the track, then the most sensible choice is GT3 -price of a C4S plus a few options, you get pure performance. If the purpose is to stay on roads, then 997 makes more sense because you may never feel the difference anywhere else than in your mind.

 

Keep in mind that with a few sensible mods (i.e. exhaust, headers, chip) you can bring your C2 to C2S performance levels quite easily. I think that most people who plan to track the car go for the S because as their skills develop, they eliminate the need, or more accurately, the desire to "upgrade" vehicles in order to continue to grow as a driver. That being said, there is absolutely no reason to think that a non S model is in any way an inferior model. In fact, I think calling it a "base" model is even in some ways not appropriate. It is, after all, still a 911 and still an extremely capable car, both on and off the track.

 

A bit of off-topic here - how long usually ECU re-learn process takes? It is kinda weird - after reset I have sometimes car responding very promptly and sometimes it sort of 'thinks' and starts accelerate slowly, and I have to drop accelerator and kick it in again and again it picks up slowly, and then on third time if I drop and kick it something decided it is time to run, it roars and pushs me back into the seat. Pretty weird, right after Softronic flash on stock exhaust it was kicking in every time when I kick accelerator, and now after Fabspeed exhaust install and reset and 120 miles after it is still doing something odd sometimes. Not sure what it is, really, looks like sport mode comes on and off by itself.
May be I should re-flash ECU again? But probably it should not be the problem, should it?

 

That's very strange. The car should be reacting the same way every time. Unfortunately I am not a Softronic dealer. My suggestion would be to contact them directly, I'm sure they can help determine if the software is the cause.

I can tell you this however. With the EVOMSit software that we use, we typically write the software for the mods you currently have done to the car. Then if you add an exhaust or headers we can re-write the software to take full advantage of the additions.

Certainly give Softronic a call. They're very knowledgable and I'm sure if the software is the cause, they will take care of it for you.

 

I bought the S for the red calipers... seriously.

....okay, and also because on the used market, it just makes sense...

 

i agree with everyone here many of the racing school instructors other than porsche race miatas as they are probably the best car to "learn to be a better driver" i don't think the base carrera will get you to be a better driver faster than the "S" as they are both fast cars and have tons of electronics to hinder that learning.....either car is a great choice but that second wind that the "S" gets over 5k rpm is almost turbo like and a thrill in itself to make it worth the extra money..

I think both cars would be great on the track, but neither will make you a better driver "faster" if you want that, get a lower hp car without any electronics with a rollcage hans etc so you can really learn at the edge without worrying about hurting that beautiful car or yourself i do not think any newer porsche would fit that category of making you a faster driver

btw MDRUMS is a good guy and he just likes to drive fast and the S will be faster and he is faster than me ( 997.2 with pdk vs my 997.1) but i enjoy my car no less..

i have to disagree with MDRUMS on his comment
"Why are we buying sports cars...to purposly buy the slower car? No I do not believe that. We all buy what we can afford, simple as that. I traded up from the 07 S to the 09 S because it will be a more fun and a faster car for me at the track. Plus PDK was a huge draw for me for other reasons... I enjoy that. I would love to have a GT3 or GT2 but I can not afford it right now. ...
I could afford faster but it is so frustrating on the roads with a fast car that many days behind slower retired floridians i enjoy driving my older e46 325i...no mustang gt's wanting to race me etc, no worries...also it is so hard "not" to drive fast and get a ticket with a faster car...anyway will stop the rambling and go get my colicky 7 month old now...

mk

 

Skill is everything IF winning is everything. Combine skill with a faster car and that's all it may take . In an Olympic race the diffence between a silver and a gold might only be 1/100 sec and athletes will swim in a special suit , ride expensive bikes, and even lean down to make weight for a competition. So why not do this with cars ?

UNLESS -winning isn't everything .

Having the fastest car doesn't mean one is obligated to prove it . But if you must .. then it will take skill ,the faster car . and combining the two on that given day .

You know what matters to me ? Because I can only speak for myself .
I like to feel like I have something special and somewhat private with my car .
I didn't make my car fast to win or prove anything . Just having the car is enough for me .

If I raced and lost .. I would not be upset.
If I won -I wouldn't feel any better than anyone else .
I don't feel like I have to accomplish anything to be content in my own skin .

Just my .$02

 

Seriously that was one of the reason why I got the S. Wife asked "why doesn't this one have the little red thing inside wheel? The red thing looks cool, lets get that one"

Who am I to argue.

And yes, my driver skill is no where near the capability of either the S and non-S Carrera. But I intend to grow into it.

 

cool wife

 

"pads are super easy to change in the Carrera S vs. the non-S." WHAT?????????? DO YOU JUST MAKE THIS **** UP AS YOU GO?

What are we talking about .2 sec 0 to 60? (4.7 VS 4.5)
177 vs 188 top speed? 3% of the people on this board can drive a 997 hard enough to feel the difference. I can turn a faster lap time with my Boxster S then most people with a 997S. IF YOU DRIVE ON THE TRACK GET A GT3!!!!!! YOU WANT TO GO FAST ON THE STREET GET A TURBO!!!

 

only reason i got S model is i couldnt get the GT3. wife won't let me.
oh and my driving skill is not even good enough for a boxster.

 

The choice to buy S vs Non-S does not need to depend on performance of the car or price.

It is somewhat difficult to keep a straight face in saying the S is a better performer when many of the tracking Ss are swapping out their 19s for 18s at the tracks. A downgrade to get better grip?!

A 911 is a 911, and to infer that 0.1 or 0.2 seconds will relegate the regular 997 an inferior product is simply not correct. As sad as it sounds, I had even seen Ss lapped by Civics - talk about driver skills.

The light front end forces us to drive differently with a 911 than other more balanced sports cars.

993 drives completely different than 996 and through the magic of evolution, the 997 en mass lacks the "widow-maker" soul that made the Porsche marque so enticing through the years.

I remember if you are able to tame the 911 similarly to Derek Bell or Rohrl, you've earned some serious bragging rights regarding your driving skills.

People enjoy things and spend money for different reasons, spending less does not mean you are inferior. Many people prefer to spend wisely and maximize their enjoyment rather than say "I am the Meanest Baddest because I got this or that!"

 

I'm not sure what got you so irate, but the point that was being made was simply that for a given level of driver talent, the S is likely to be faster. Taken in that context, it's unarguable for the simple reasons that the S has a bit more power, more usable torque, the benefit of PASM and (in the 997.1) better braking. It's understood that a good driver in a non-S can of course be faster than an average driver in an S - and I've seen plenty Miatas at the track show a clean pair of heels to much more exotic hardware - but that doesn't change the underlying position all else being equal. I agree that for most of us the differences will be slight or even non-existent (as we would run out of talent before either car would) but they are there all the same.

 

yep. talent to drive a car with nice red calipers, we heard it here already.