The low vs mid mileage cars has been a topic of 6speed debate . I pefer low mile cars viewing every mile driven as wear and tear wheras others argue that a car which sits in the garage is somehow less healthy.

All agree on one thing . The 997 Turbo is extremely reliable . I have one myself .. a 2007 -- and it has been modified to 700 Hp and despite the 19 month project I have never had a reliability issue at all. In fact many of the guys on the 997tt forum have shared that sentiment as well .

My car is just about to hit 9K miles . Sigh . It has been a truly enjoyable two year semi garage queen .

I also have the new 997S PDK and I love that car too .

If I had to have AWD .. there would not be a shred of doubt . The 997tt FTW .. all the way . the king .

 

Everybody keeps talking about the extra weight of a C4S vs a C2, but I don't think there a many people on this board (if any) that have the driving skills to be quicker in a C2.

 

I think some people just prefer the lighter feel of the C2 and consider it to be classic 911 ... but to characterize the C4 as worse because of that is just bowing to popular opinion. The C4 shows its advantages in tougher conditions and lots of cornering, so it's up to the buyer to figure out if he feels like he's going to accrue some benefit (psychological or otherwise) from the AWD.

Re the low miles thing ... I've been thinking a lot about this one. I noticed another buyer on the forum was dead set on a low miles car ... but at the same time, was intent on keeping the car for many years as a DD. That just made less sense to me the more I thought about it. If you are concerned about resale value, I would pay attention to miles, but if you are going to hold onto a car for a long time ... doesn't it make sense to let someone else eat the most expensive miles first, and then stack your 100K+ miles on top of that? I feel like focusing on the history of the car and maybe using the extra savings towards an extended warranty as well could be a better use of money. Again, just thoughts running through my head ... haven't come to any real conclusion on the subject.

 

What's the actual deal? Isn't this two deals - new car buy / old car trade? Or maybe I'm over thinking it?

What's the CS4 selling for without considering the 335i? What is the list price on the CS4 and what is the percentage discount?

What is the payoff on the 335i and what is the 335i worth?

I hate deals that are combined like that - always makes it trickier to evaluate.

As for the CS4 or not, if you like it and the deal is good, if that's fits your budget, and you think you will enjoy the car - why not do it?

Q is, when compared to an '07 turbo for example, is - do you want an '07 turbo or an '07 anything? There're new features on the '09s that you won't get on older cars. Are those important or not? Is the extra power in the turbo - and it looks like you will have to pay more for it, maybe 10% - is that how you want to spend that 10%? Just be careful not to let someone else's goal for your car become yours. Think it through, decide what you need in the car and how you will use it, and get the car that fits.

 

Very good point. Most drivers will not be able to push the machine hard enough to uncover this, I feel.

I will say that there are some very aggressive drivers on this forum and that makes the numbers skewed but the general population simply does not drive aggressively enough.

 

Good points to be made. Since the 2010 Turbo is around the corner, would buying the 07 be like buying an old model? Some will always lust for a turbo so the market demand might be good, but if you did buy the 07 tt would it lose quite a bit almost right out of the gates considering the 2010 is around the corner?

Thoughts?

 

Didn't affect me a bit. I was waiting for the news on '10 997TT and made the decision to get an 09 as soon as Porsche updated their website. I don't care for the new drivetrain and tail lights as much as I did for the current engine. Well, there was also a juicy MY09 discount on the table but it wasn't a decisive factor.

Porsche doesn't overproduce "turbos", so this allows them to maintain a fairly healthy supply and demand ratio. Good for them. (and for us)

 

The 4's have about 70-80% of the steering feel of the RWD. The standard TT is AWD but the king of the Turbo's is RWD. Every other Porsche GT car is RWD and no, when it comes to the track, the RWD Porsche's are preferred.

The standard C4 out weighs the C2 by over 150lbs! 3071lbs compared to 3241lbs. The C2 sprints to 60 faster than the C4 despite the AWD. Rear engined cars tend to do fine from a stand still. Thats huge no matter how you slice it.

Porsche and BMW tunes their suspensions with the assumption that there is one person in the car and is corner balanced with this assumption.

The AWD makes sense for those drivers living in areas that see a lot of rain and or snow. Or, those drivers that worry about oversteer. I know the 1" wider fenders appeal to some but from a performance point a view, I do not see the point.

And yes, if I was overweight, the first place to lose weight would be in my own belly. However, I fall well within USMC standards....

Jason

 

The performance difference is like a C2 with two people in it versus a C2 with just a driver. Most drivers notice when they are alone in their car versus when they have a passenger. But even if they dont this added weight is through the front driveline which greatly disrupts the connection the driver feels to road.

But, yes, the average driver probably would not even notice the difference. But then that makes me ask, why pay more for a car that is slower, heavier, with less steering feel especially if you do not live somewhere that you would actually need AWD?.... for an extra 1" of fender?

Yeah this forum is probably not a good sampling.... there are some mean drivers on here

Jason

 

Also realize that a 997.2 ('09) C4 is within a stones throw of the power of an 997.1 ('05-'08) C4S - 355hp vs 345hp. What's considered "fast enough" is as much a moving target as other updated options.

Seems like most discussion has been toward "wrong car" and not "wrong deal" - but I think only you can decide that - just be careful - two "wrong car" decisions in a year is going to start getting expensive.

I still don't think there's enough detail about the "deal" to know if it is good or not.

 

I am in the same boat... just got out of my 2008 BMW M5 and looking for a pre-owned C4S. I live in MN and would benefit from the awd version. Plus I feel like I would push the car a bit more with extra added confidence. I've considered Turbos, but it looks like they are going for a $20K premium over a 2006 C4S.

I have 2 questions:
1) How's the reliability of the 4S? Does the awd system add additional complexity and reliability problems?
2) When can I get a better deal - now or in the spring? My theory is dealers will need to make room for the 2010 miles right now and we are at the end of the season so the prices are at the lowest... on the other hand, used car market sucks and no one has any inventory.

 

I dont belive the AWD system adds or takes away any reliability. A TT would be more reliable with its GT1 derived engine. You could steel a 996TT if you wanted. Performance deal of the century on one of those!

Jason

 

So a 997.2 C4 is slow and heavy, but a 997.1 C4S is as slow and heavy, so the only choice is a 997.2 CS4, but that costs a good bit more, so get a 997.1 CS4, but that's slow and heavy and you would be compromising just to save a few $$$, so stretch the $$ and get an 07 TT, even though that's not the car you were looking for, or a 997.2 C2S, but that's not the car you wanted either, so stretch and get the 997.2 CS4 after all even though you don't think you need the extra power, and since your don't, just get the CS4, but that's no good...

Yikes. That's it - no p-car for you.

 

Not slow and heavy.... just slower and heavier

funny post

Jason

 

The 07 and 08 Turbo are the last Turbo with the dry sump Gt1 engine . This engine not only is a benchmark proven over time but even Porsche is retaining the Gt1 block on the 2010 gt3 . In an effort to provide Dfi and PDK on the Turbo as well as some cost cutting this new engine must prove itself . At 150K a pop vs a 90K used 07 Turbo the used car is quite a bargain .

Also when it comes to modifications .. the tuners have had enormous time to perfect the 997tt . They had even more time to develop ultra fast 996tt cars . The new car is somewhat unknown .

My point on this thread was not to compare the new Turbo to the old but rather to compare the used Turbo to the new C4 3.6 at 78K . In my opinion the used Turbo woiuld blow the C4 away in every category except one .. it doesn;t have the new PCM . I suppose if techno gadgets are most important the C4 wouild win.