I picked up an 05 997S fully loaded with 15K, engine was replaced at 12K and has full warranty until July 2011. I paid $44,500

Don't.

There is allot of talk about prices here but not all details are aways given.

And some people throw out numbers like they have a ticker tape machine pouring out Porsche NA sales contracts by the day. They don't and some of the numbers which are suggest get comical.

The only thing to remember is to enjoy your car. I got mine in April and paid around the same price.

My car's seen about 8 tracks days this year (I'm a novice) and will see three more in the next two weeks. It holds its own in the green class with no trouble against some really expensive cars and it puts a smile on my face after every track session and when I drive it home.

To me...thats what its all about.

right on def is true

1) A forum member just picked up an 08 leftover Cayman S for 48K. Untitled and not punched. He and I looked at countless cars and many Cayman s cars with CPO are asking low 40's closing in the 30's with low miles and warranty. What does that buy over an 05 with out warranty and high miles ? peace of mind to the person concerned with expenses.

2) I said the car was "worth" low 40's not that he's get it with an asking price of 52. In fact I did say the price was "too high" and that implies that he ought to pass it up --certainly at that price. Just just my opinion .

IMO headaches are headaches: I earmarked some spare maintenance $cash when I purchase and am willing to take a risk (low probability, high impact). CPO for me, wasn't an issue. Some 911's (CPO or not) are in the shop more than they should be. Price is about right give or take a few K. A few months ago, I paid high 40's for a late 997 '05 S CAB with the bells and whistles, which was moderately driven.

I appreciate the suggestions on other models...but I don't get the rationale for "if your spending the money why not get a _____ instead" (For what I spent, I could have picked up newer- CaymanS, Boxter S, etc...but I didn't want one of those. I wanted a 911. I wanted the car I dreamt about as a child......(and have no regrets that it will come with headaches, gremlins, PITA tires, pit stops, crappy PCM and electronics, Nav technology thats circa 1995, a plastic bumper, and the service nightmares...)

Hit the pedal, and the other cr@p goes away.

**** i paid a lot more for my car in july 2008, but I love it and theres nothing i could do now, these cars will depreciate.

I just know that there are not many other p car owners out there that are enjoying their depreciation as much as I am!

[QUOTE][For what I spent, I could have picked up newer- CaymanS, Boxter S, etc...but I didn't want one of those. I wanted a 911. I wanted the car I dreamt about as a child......(/QUOTE]

Then why not buy a new one ? Let me guess --the cost .

That's why suggesting a newer car with a warranty makes sense even if it's not the first choice . No car is fun if it's in the shop and the bills are mounting up. Buying a 5 year old used childhood dream car with miles can end up with the nighmare of it becoming a money pit.

If you wish to take the risk --that's fine . Emotional reasoning wins and you may even get lucky . although the lack of warranty casts a cloud of doubt over the entire experience .

I read in Forbes once that Bill Gates had a 9 year old Porsche . He can afford to fix it but most who buy an old 911 may not have the financial base to support the car and then what? What if it really drains the account ? You think its never happened to any used car buyer?

I bought a 2005 911 S for 49K about 2 months ago. CPO with 20k miles, full leather and sports chrono. The car was in pristine condition. Those are the real numbers, no fluff! I looked for quite a while and never saw an S with low miles going for less than the high 40's. It may different now, but I definitely would recommend doing your research. If you spend time and be patient, you'll know a good deal when you see it.

sorry to thread jack, but can i throw myself into the mix here?

i'm still looking for my car... anyhow... i had an agreement which fell through to purchase a 2006 C2S, with 20K miles, NAV, adaptive, extinguisher, etc etc etc for $47,500.... beautiful car.... so there's a first refernce point...

my guess would be the same car in 2005 terms should be in the $42.5K - $43.5K range?...

sooooo.... I would ask for everyone's thoughts on a car I am going to look at this weekend...

2005 997 C2S, 12,000 miles, 2nd owner, no warranty, owner is a true Porsche guy... the difference is that this car has a Aerokit front bumper, Fabspeed mufflers, Champion wheels w/ PS2s and H&R springs... everything is tastefully done, and exactly how I'd do it myself. What premium should I pay for these extras? I've actually tracked the history of the car and everything seems super legit... I just need to figure out what a FAIR price is...

Overall, contrary to the advice on the forums, I am getting more comfortable with the idea of 2005 being decently reliable cars... that RMs/IMS issues are the exception rather than the norm... that being said, I'm also trying to obtaing an EasycAre extended service contract quote... lol....

[QUOTE][/What premium should I pay for these extras? QUOTE]

15 percent of what they cost new .

I think the asking price is about $8.000-10,000 too high.

if it helps you as an indication, I just paid low 50s for a 06 Cab S with full leather, tiptronic, bixenon, bose and 26,000 miles - about $4000 below KBB.

Be a bit careful with 2005 models, its the year they just came out and my mechanic warned me to stay away from the vintage if at all possible. Also, you can get an 06 with a bit of warranty left on it for around $50,000 (just saw/drove a 06 Coupe S on Auto Trader for $48k burgundy red/tan for sale in Las Vegas).

Good luck

I've had two mechanics tell me they haven't seen any IMS failures for '05 997 S-builds after August. if I interpretted correcly, before then, they both saw a few in the first years of service...but not many, though. Hopefully, mine wont' be a statistic. My '05 911S Cab just turned 4.

As for the 'how much do i spend' arguments... everyone is CORRECT depending on the POV on the cost-benefit. It really comes down to pay a premium now...or pay in maintenance increments later.

This is my first used car. While i was shopping, I over-analyzed the purchase price @#$ excise tax, and then the total cost to own. (maintenace, warranty, depreciation, resale potential in 3,4,5,6 yrs, etc) In the end...after driving a few..everything rational went out the window. (Aren't the red brake's cool?)

"This is my first used car. While i was shopping, I over-analyzed the purchase price"

LOL, I think the hardest part about waiting for the right car is how easy it is to fall into obssession over options, performance stats, articles, online listings, color options, pricing trends, etc. It can get to the point of being a part time job. But then you go for a test drive and all the clinical analysis and encylopediac wisdom flies out the window, replaced with raw emotion.

"ignorance is bliss"...

I know 997 owners who have never even heard of an RMS or an IMS... they just drive their cars and are as happy as pie... sometimes I believe the forums can play tricks on your mind... I've heard ppl toss around numbers like 5-10% of 997 911's have IMS failures... could it really be that many?

There are thousands of 2005 and 2006 cars that are out there... I can't say how many... tried to look up old threads with production and sales numbers... but one old RL thread showed 15,000 997's sold in a couple of years in the US (2004 and 2005)... so let's just go off this likely inaccurate statistic just for kicks...

I'll also use those numbers since 2004-2005 would be where the MY05 (and early MY06) cars were sold... so 15,000....

reading the forums, I've probably read about 10 or so actual occurences.... In person, I've heard about another 4 (from cars that I've looked at)... from a mechanic, heard about another 4... so I've heard about 18... 18 out of 15,000 cars or .12% Obviously I havent heard of EVERY case out there.... so what do we figure? Regardless... my personal experience accounts for about a 1/10th of 1 percent of early model 997s...

Well, if we do assume a 5-10% failure rate amongst these specific 997s, then you are looking at between 750-1500 cars affected. Could it really be that high? I'm not a six-sigma black belt or involved in any way in QC... but wouldn't that high of a failure rate be totally unacceptable anyways? I would guess that if there was 200-300 occurences, that would be enough to cause a stir... especially with all the online car communities... 200-300 occurences would be about a 1.3 - 2.0% failure rate... doesnt that make more sense? something that would be acceptable to Porsche, but cause a large enough of a concern in the public to cause people to say "stay away from the 2005"?

I'm not trying to justify buying a 2005, because I could be totally off... errrr well, maybe I am trying to justify to myself (because 2005 cars are SO MUCH CHEAPER!!!!) Anyways, does anyone else think that this could be the case? There have been RMS/IMS issues since the early 996/986 days... Porsche has had since 1999 to work on these problems... you would think that by 2005 (six years later) the issue would be much improved? Just some thoughts...

I just bought a 2005 Carrera S convert for $37,000 with 20k miles from the orginal owner. It has the stop watch on the dash, bose, heated seats, and other stuff it also has new tires. Not perfect condition it has a few marks on the paint, etc. I am very happy with it so far.