1) It does have more power but will never have the air cooled sound . Plus in its time the 993 had very few competitors and the 993 Turbo blew everything away .

2) Interior room was about equal.

3) Interior quality was actually better with the 993 . Now its true that the 997 is far more modernized .

4) Similar stereo quality , about equal in rattles, the 997 is better handling but not of one contrasts it against the masses of cars it competes with in its time. In fact with an MSRP of 99K (110K loaded) a 993 Turbo can run a 997S even in modern times .

Pag did listen -but the largest criticism came with the 996 . To this day the 993 with low miles prices above the 996 and even will compete with the used 997 market .

I have owned all of the cars -
one 993
one 993 Turbo
two 996 cars (2000 and 2002)
three 997S cars (05,07, 09)
one 997 Turbo (07)

I have followed this Porsche evolution process at my own driving fingertips over time.

 

Wow. And we bought it because it was easy for two old cripples to get in and out. Didn't see the original comment, but somebody needs to get to a gym if he has trouble getting in and out of a 911.

 

I understand the option list is long, but for the price I paid..over 100 grand i think a more aggressive exhaust should be standard..don't you?

 

I have no argument there. the Cayman/Boxster is a beautiful platform and PAG should not make it second to the 911.

The 911 is different. It is all-in-the-rear and that is unique. That characteristic actually makes it less competitive, but if one understand the concept and love it, you want to keep it.

FYI... PDK is as core as you can get... PDK was develop in the racing world (956) to improve performance.

 

It's a matter of opinion and personal taste. I prefer a subtle/discrete exhaust. It may not bark, but...

I actually think that my car's exhaust is quite audible. What's the point of a loud exhaust? Bragging rights? I'm an adult - I do not need to bragg/bark.

 

I can't comment directly on the differences in Porsche models except the obvious differences we saw while test driving them last weekend. But I've been around sports cars since the 356 was the hot thing to own. And I have to report that "an improvement will need to be made in the next generation 911" is old news. It's been said by sage commentators for nearly half a century now.

I'm not entitled to an opinion yet on the evolution of the 911, being too new an owner, but just as a sports car fan, I remember when Porsche got a new CEO who agreed. The 928 grew into the 944 and something called a 968 was around as well. Front engines were the wave of the future: "It's old fashioned enough just to be using rear wheel drive. Haven't you seen how well front wheel drive works on rally cars?!? Hanging the engine out back like an outboard is a joke."

Then, as I remember, sales tanked -- so they brought in another CEO. One who was an old-time Porsche man. The 911 moved to the front again and began getting attention in the engineering department.

As someone else said, no successful car is a Swiss Army Knife. At least, no sports car. The 911 is the core Porsche... personality, let us say. With that model selling well, they can let engineers wander all over the place, building SUV's when they're popular, building mid-engine cars, and probably building some silly city car, a hydrogen-sucking wheelchair next to please the Greens. But the 911 is Porsche. If you're worried about an M3 beating your track time, buy a turbo instead.

Incidentally, I can't speak to the track handling of a 997.2 because I haven't tracked ours (and I may never do so at my age) but in my younger days I remember passing one at Willow Springs. A test day. Coming out of the pits, he held me off around turn one of course, and the carousel is not a good place to pass. He left me no room coming out of that turn, but going into four I took him. Real handling shows when you get on a track.

Of course, I was driving a Formula Ford, a rear-engine race car so tail happy it makes the original 911S look like a Chevy Impala with the big block. When I went around that 911 going up and over turn four, I probably looked to an outsider like Jeremy Clarkson drifting around that airfield -- forty degrees off the direction of travel and laying rubber like a dragster. But I passed him and left him receding in my mirrors through the dive down to five and the jump through six.

Rear engines are not a detriment inherently. Like all engineering, it's a trade-off. And please notice that a stock 911 stayed ahead of my pure race car for three turns. Fast turns. I'd say that's doing quite well enough for a car that guy could drive home and use to ferry the kids to school on Monday. That's what I think of as a "sports car."

When Cindy and I decided we wanted a Porsche this time around, we drove the other models only out of curiosity and courtesy. When you want a Porsche, you want a 911. And not some copycat mid-engine car with the name slapped on the back, let alone a front engine car. I might as well buy a Corvette. (And the Z06 was a very nice ride when we tested it. Another car that is true to its heritage. Just... not a Porsche.)

I think Adias's point is that the spirit of Porsche lies in a rear-engine sports car with emphasis on the 'sport'. Option it up if you like -- and Cindy and I did like -- but don't fool yourself it's anything but a Porsche. It will take the Carousel at 110 mph like a race car, and occasionally remind you of that ability by the way it feels on a rough road. It's a sports car. Buy a sports coupe, or even a sports sedan, if that is what you prefer, but they won't feel like a Porsche, just as Porsche will never feel like a sports coupe. I hope. The day that's all the choice I have in the Porsche dealer's lot is the day I'll just buy a Mercedes. Or a bloody Corvette.

 

No. Then people like Cindy and me wouldn't buy it. We've been around too many loud airplanes and cars for too many decades to want a loud exhaust all the time. Something we can't turn off.

I do sympathize that Porsche don't offer a no-cost option for a louder exhaust, but we have to remember this is first and foremost a European car. They damn near went broke trying to built separate models for the U.S. and international market one decade -- if I remember correctly -- and they made it a policy since then to build one car for the world, not separate models for different markets.

Regrettably, that means we get cars that must also satisfy countries like Switzerland right out of the box. Now we liked Switzerland, but I gotta tell 'ya, they don't like cars much. They barely tolerate them, and their standards for drive-by decibels are almost certainly the tall pole in the tent when it comes to designing the stock exhaust on a car you want to sell in Europe. (I heard that these days, though it may be wrong, that you can't even drive through Switzerland if your car isn't certified to their standards.)

So I suspect -- without really knowing -- that Porsche offer the sport exhaust because in default mode it is certifiable across all their markets. It only gets raucous when you hit the 'sport' button.

 

I actually DID buy the 911, in part, because of its looks. Or rather, because the Boxster is so homely (IMHO) and it does not have the power I was seeking. There are many great things about the 911 but the Boxster/Cayman have superior handing and steering feel which is my #1 criteria in a sports car. But the 997 was good enough in that regard to outweigh the other negative factors of Porsche's mid-engine design.
All that said, I think you'd have to have a pretty broad brush to paint me with the term you are referencing...

 

Hi there! We know each other and I can see an exception when I see one.

The point I am trying to make is that some of us - the core 911 fans I call it - actually like its handling and do not find it at fault. I like the Cayman/Boxster and know how balanced it is but I still prefer the 911 handling. I do prefer its pendulum dynamic - and the 997 has that very tamed. And BTW... as balanced as a mid-engine can be, it has its limits, and when those are reached... all bets are off.

What I hear is that some people have the 911 for its image/looks despite considering it less good handling-wise. I think it would be more honest to come out and say that they do not like the 911 dynamics but they like its looks/image.

 

Well stated.

 

ok more things that bug me

1. sport chrono -- why is this an option? if people don't like the dash, fix that.
2. "cell phone integration" -- pre '09 models .. what is it exactly?
3. electronics in general. Porsche really doesn't keep with the times here.

 

Having enjoyed the evolution of the 911 from 1978 to 2003, it has been an interesting ride to say the least. Begining with offset pedals through the floor, a vague gear shift lever as long as a chevy pickups, an HVAC system only Einstein could figure out how to work, and the worlds worst stock radios. But i kept buying another one every year or so. The old 78-88 SC/Carrera series made up for all these gripes by their lightness and handling with barely 200hp. Then came the 964, on paper a superior car, but such an ugly duckling and horror of horrors all wheel drive. I instead waited for the 993. It still had the goofy floor pedals and pitiful sound system, but amazing handling and power improvments even in stock form. After some minor tweeking (M030 suspension and factory RS body works and sport seats), I swore it would be my last Porsche. The advent of the flat sided 996 did nothing to change my mind. Fast forward 10 years and the price of a used 450 hp 996 turbo became too hard to resist. (Add to that the price of my used 993 kept going up). Modern hang pedal, no crooked seating position, an HVAC system that actually works, a decent Bose sound system. (Before everyone jumps on this try listening to a vintage Blaupunkt system). I did have to fix the 996 factory mushy SUV ride height suspension. What do I miss most of all from the 993 overall styling, the traditional real individual VDO 5 gauge cluster and the nimbleness. The 996 front end leave something to be desired. I'll admit I find the 997 an all around better looking car as it most closely resembles the 993.. Someone made a comment that Porsche drivers don't acknowlege each other any more. Back in the day, Porsches were so rare we always flashed our lights at each other. Now I'm sure that would create an incident of road rage with the uninformed. Thanks to Adias for this walk down Porsche memory lane.

 

You are welcome. I still wave to Porsche drivers on the road.

 

Oh God. I did too, though it's only happened once this first week in this desert town. Am I a throwback?

Oh. Never mind. That's okay.

 

The image is one of the big reasons my wife doesn't want a 911 in the garage, while I'm looking for sports car performance "out of the box" that I can't find in a sports sedan without some major mods.