Have a 2006 997 C4. I need my back seats for kids but will probably do 12-14 track days this season. As I get faster, wonder about having 5 point harness and hans device. Swapping seat is reasonably straightforward. Does anyone have recommendations for harness bar or easily removable roll cage for my situation?

Thanks in advance.

EDH

 

This is your best option.

http://www.bkauto.com/porsche/r1035.php

I have seen these for sale in the classifieds from time to time, if you aren't in a hurry, perhaps you could find one for a good deal.

 

I've asked the question of the experts in my area and was strongly advised not to try to patch together a moderate solution. I specifically asked about the BK option and advised against it. If planning to use harnesses, then use a roll bar and proper seats. In the end, I found a new take-off set of GT2 Sport Buckets (great deal), a slightly used (1200 street miles) 997 Roll Bar, which also came with Schroth Profi 2-Hans belts thrown in. Not cheap, but safe and Porsche OEM (meaning I still have the thorax airbag). Read Pete Stout's article on 997 seats in last month's Excellence.

 

Did they say anything specific why BK solution is not advisable or was it just a generalization like - any racing requires dedicated car?

 

They all said that they would not install a harness bar, period. That applies for both DE and racing (in any event, racing requries a full roll cage). I asked about using 996 GT3 seats in my 997 and they suggested that because the 997 has a thorax airbag and the 996 seat does not, they weren't very comfortable with it. The might if I signed a quit claim / waiver and in no even would they use their PWIS to disable the airbag warning.

Also, the shops around here aren't keen on 5-points and so everyone uses 6.

 

I have 996 GT3 Seats in my car, what makes the 997 sets safer? the airbag will help on the street when not wearing a helmet, but on the track I really doubt that the side airbag is going to do much. I had my local dealer switch off the side airbag with his PIWIS and you would never know they were missing. I also installed the Tequipment roll bar, but for a time considered the BK harness option, but then decided the rear seats were useless to me (even with two small kids). If I was going to use them, I would buy the 997 seats that you have (because they tilt), and the BK harness bar, and swap it out when I needed to.

 

My comments are only intended for street use regarding the seats. As Pete wrote and I've been writing at the forums for a couple of years, there's a concern about street driving and somebody other than yourself in the car (either driving or passenger) in the event of an accident. This is why my local shops and dealers won't meddle with 996 seats in a 997 - because of the airbag issue. I did inquire at various places as I was doing my research and the answers were the same - that dealer and independent alike didn't want to take the risk of removing an airbag seat and especially of tinkering with the ECU to trick the car into thinking the airbag was still there. For a track-only car, totally different matter because everyone in the event has signed a waiver. But, we've seen how that can be pierced...

So, I spend a few thousand more on the Sport Bucket seats, but I feel I got what I paid for and didn't have any install issues, no airbag warning issues, etc.

 

So it comes down to the lawyers, and cost to defending themselves and not what seat and harness setup works well. I have two buddies with 997GT3RS's, one has the 997 seats you have, the other has the CGT seats (carbon back Euro 997 GT3 seats) and they both felt that the 996 seats were more comfortable and held you in place better.

However the OP was enquiring about a re+re Harness solution, and I guess with the 997 seats that you have and the BK unit he should be well covered, would you agree?

 

I am very curious to know about this as I intended to install BK bar this season for DEs and I do use rear seats every time we get for a family ride.

What is exact concern about BK bar? Do they think it may crush your neck in case of roll-over?

 

Wish I could tell you what the exact concerns were. Maybe the feeling was it wasn't a comprehensive enough system, meaning in a roll over the harness truss might not hold up and if it doesn't then your harness isn't holding you in place? I honestly don't know but I trust these nationally known Porsche race and DE preparation shops...

 

You see, I`m just concerned that some stubborn pro shops people will claim as uncomprehensive any solution short of proper racing full cage and they are somewhat right about this as any other solution one way or another depends of how much you frame and roof gets distorted in case if you roll your car.

Thanks nevertheless, it was interesting to learn.

 

I looked at this as well and was told the harness bar is not safe due to keeping you held in upright in a rollover situation. With the 3 point you can move out of the way of the collapsing roof.

I have thought of using the Porsche bolt in roll bar during the summer but it seems like a pain to take it in/out along with seats, etc.

 

Yes, good advice given re harness bars. If you put a harness bar in a car, use a 4, 5, or 6 point harness, with or without a Haans device....you have essentially lock you head in a vulnerable fixed upright position. If there is a rollover, your neck, spine, etc are toast. If you want the harness, do a proper roll bar. Or just use the OE 3 point, with Helmut only. In a roll over you can lean to the center to protect you neck if the roof crushed down.

 

I have the BK Harness bar, the Bose Sub woofer. Used it for a few years but ended up getting a GT3 with roll bar. I'll give you a great deal on it if you want it.
I used it with a 996 GT3 seat and 6 point Harness for DE events.

 

The racing clubs I run with won’t allow a harness bar without a proper racing seat and rollover protection. The reason being that in a rollover without a rollbar a racing seat and harness will keep the driver erect which greatly increases the likelihood of driver fatality. Without a proper racing seat/roll bar you are infinitely safer with the stock seat/seatbelt setup than with a harness that won’t function properly with a non racing seat. This is definitely a case of do it right or don’t do it at all.