This is a NO BRAINER. The difference between a 997.1 and a 997.2 is way more than the difference between a 997S and a non S. Go for the 997.2 and get the totally re-engineered engine and gearbox etc. When you come to sell it (as you inevitably will in 2 to 4 years, regardless of what you may think today) there will be a market for the 997.2 There won't for the 997.1

 

That depends on how you define performance and how the cars have been maintained and modified.

For out of the box, you can look up the values of HP and torque for the cars in question (the 997.1S 3.8l engine vs the 997.2 3.6l engine).

The S upgrade buys (and bought) you a bunch of other things beyond the 3.6->3.8 liter engine upgrade. You also got lighting options and 19" wheels standard (on the 997.1 in 2008 and 07 afaik) and maybe different brakes and suspension, etc. Some base options, became non-optional-part-of-the-car.

You need to look at the whole package as the car is configured and then decide.

If you plan to track/race, then the 3.8l is probably worth it. If you very highly value the sound difference of the 3.8l vs the 3.6l, and the price difference is worth it it may be appealing to get the S. If you use the car as a daily driver or for weekend travel, the S vs nonS (with the nice-to-have features added in) may not be worth it.

 

Many of the "extras" that were standard on the S and optional on the base became standard on the base in the 997.2 (ie: Xenons). In 2009 it pretty much came down to engine size and style of brakes (closed vs. open calipers) - even the rotors are the same diameter now.

One thing to think about is the difference in overall performance thanks to the upgrade. I don't know the Ring times for the base C2, but the C2S went from about 7:59 in the 997.1 to 7:50 in the 997.2. My guess is the C2 is now in the 7:50 range because there's now only 10 hp difference and the Gen 2 C2 suspension (especially if you have PASM) is so much better.

 

If you're only keeping it for a couple of years, I think the 997.1 S will depreciate less than the 997.2 non-S, as the S has already taken the majority of its loss.

 

I concur with this - it really depends on how long you plan to keep this car. If your plan is 3 yrs or less I would go with the 997.1 S.

 

Please buy the 997.2 S. Stretch you dollar, it's gonna be worth it! You will lose more once you think of upgrading it.

 

Is that the dilema your currently going through right now ?

On a serious note, I think OP should stay within budget and get what he is comfortable with right now. Can always upgrade down the road.

 

997.2S

The car is amazing. I have one and its amazing. I also have a Gallardo and I prefer my 997.2S over the G in just about every way until about 140 where I find the P car is a little flighty and runs low on steam.

You can even find a very well optioned 09 997S PDK left over that will be really close to your budget if you have a relationship with you dealer.

If this is not an option I would still go for the 997.2 non S and get the PDK, because its like having the best of both worlds

Good luck

 

Sound advice.... but to say there wll be no market for the 997.1 is just ridiculous.

 

Don't know where thes lap times comes from, but they are probably valid.

A side note with some interesting lap time references:

The german car mag "Sport Auto" (www.sportauto-online.de) does a fair amount of testing on the Ring as well as on the short GP-track on Hockenheim. Their lap times are done by the chief editor, Horst von Sauma, a quite respected shoe over here. His Nurburgring lap times correlates quite well to what mr Rohrl has done. You may have heard or read that Porsche will enter a bone stock 997.2 GT3 RS in the Nurnburgring 24 hour race in May 2010. The car will be driven by Walter Röhrl, Horst von Sauma, Chris Harris (brittish journalist/race driver) and Roland Asch (previous GermanTouringCar driver).

Please note:
The cars are usually driven bone stock with no re-alignment etc, and the tires delivered from factory meaning all times for GT3's and GT2's are with Cup/R-tires. The 997.1 Turbo used the same rubber. Regular Carrera's have sometimes been tested with both regular and Cup/R-tires as noted below. The Manthey cars are obviously tuned and differs in setup.

von Souma set the following lap times:

Year Car Nurburgring Hockenheim
1999 996.1 GT3 8:03 N/A
2003 996.2 GT3 7:54 N/A
2007 997.1 GT3 7:48 1:11,7
2010 997.2 GT3 7:40 1:10,4

2004 996.2 GT3 RS 7:47 1:11,8
2001 997.1 GT3 RS 7:48 1:11,1

2007 997.1 Turbo 7:52 1:11,9
2001 996 GT2 7:46 N/A
2008 997 GT2 7:33 1:10,0

Regular tires if not otherwise noted:
2005 997.1 C2S 8:05 1:15,6 (standard PASM, -10mm)
2005 997.1 C2S N/A 1:14,3 (euro, non-PASM, m030 sport chassi with LSD, -20 mm)
2005 997.1 C2S X51 N/A 1:13,7 (euro, non-PASM, m030 sport chassi with LSD, -20 mm)
2009 997.2 C2S PDK 7:58 1:13,4
2009 997.2 C2S PDK 7:50 N/A (Cup/R-tires)

2009 997.2 C2 6sp N/A 1:16,1 (standard non-PASM chassi)
2009 Boxster S 8:18 N/A (3.4 l/310 bhp)
1996 Boxster 8:54 N/A (2.5 l/201 bhp)

Some lap times done by von Sauma in Manthey Motors tuned 997's:
Manthey 997.1 C2S M390 N/A 1:13,8 (regular tires)
Manthey 997.1 C2S M390 N/A 1:11,9 (Cup/R-tires)
Manthey 997.1 GT3 M480 N/A 1:09,9 (Cup/R-tires)
Manthey 997.1 GT2 M600 N/A 1:08,4 (Cup/R-tires)


The 997.2 C2S is simply sensationally quick, a fantastic car! It's all in driver skills and courage and honestly all the car you'll likely ever need and can handle unless you happen yo be a famous race driver... I wonder what lap times these gentlemen would do with a well setup car such as RonCT's C2S. Probably closer to GT3 times then any GT3 owner would like...

To the topic starter;
If you're not into tracking at all, go for the 997.2 C2. It's newer, and since it's a Porsche, that usually means it's better.

 

I pulled my quick Ring times from Fastlaps.com and it was more for general reference than the great data you posted (which is fantastic).

The irony is that my 09 C2S with Sport PASM is just as quick as my 997.1 GT3 was at Lime Rock and Watkins Glen as confirmed by my TraqMate. That was pretty much apples to apples 2008 vs. 2009 season. I wish I could say it's that I've gotten much better, but October 08 vs. April 09 I was still pretty much on the plateau running in Black / Red. I will say that the new Gen 2 PASM, and in my case Sport PASM, is really an amazing suspension - superior to the Gen 1 on the GT3. I will also admit that the 09 C2S feels "easier" to drive at the peak of its potential than the GT3 was. Apples to apples meaning same wheels / tires / brake fluid / brake pads / stock seats / Softronic with one addition. GT3 control arms on the C2S to gain camber - alignments on the GT3 and C2S were almost exactly the same with -2.3 camber up front. This season I now have the SSK, roll bar, harnesses, and Sport Bucket seats - all items neither car had in the past. We will see how she goes now...

 

[quote=big_willy;2765885]Is that the dilema your currently going through right now ?

Yes. But I am wise and will await the arrival of the 991 S. I just jope it comes with a new interior. I just don't want to sit in a car that is almost physically the same as my old one.

 

Agreed, plus I do not know if there are differences with gearing as well...

 

This is good statement, by my seat of my pants I thought the C2S PDK was faster than my 993TT, my 996 GT3 and as fast as my 997 GT3. According to the ring times the
997.2 C2S PDK is faster than the 997.1 TT, the 996 GT3 and almost as fast as the 997.1 GT3
The C2S PDK IS an Amazing car!!!