Their engineers are so good they redefined the laws of physics. Note they say "significantly different" not significantly better or improved so you can't trap them in a lie.

 

Interesting reply, ls03od


Maybe other people, but not me

I'm using an RTA as a tool, and like i don't think a philips screwdriver is the answer of everything, it's very useful!

frequency response is the most noticeable thing to human ear after SPL (sound pressure level). And both are related in terms of perception. Human ear is very sensible to midrange (voice) frequencies (1000-4000hz) and can tolerate high SPL of very low frequencies (below 40hz). Also... the tolerance can be very different from a person to another and changes over the time.

It depends.

Basically it depends of your REFERENCE (mic,RTA,signal). And that's a HUGE debate that started in 1933 with the work of Fletcher and Munson. Still no final answer!
I know neither of A,B,C,D or Z weightings are perfect, but you can have a very good idea with A-weighted + human ear (subjective) post-testing.

And most of the time, we are talking about 1 or 2 dB differences, not the kind of huge 20-30dbs we have here with this Bose system..

I'm using an advanced DSP processor for home and business sound systems that allows 300db/oct xover and very precise EQ from 10hz to 40khz + linear phase/time delay, etc... And it can only extract the best from the transducers, not changing their inner sonic caracteristics.

Therefore, yes, a flat curve can sound bad. I fully agree.

But i never heard any peak n' dip curve that sounded good, even with the best transducers possible.



Yes i'll do so within a week or two.


I doubt 20-30db boost at precisely 50hz was neccessary (or made on purpose). I'm not even sure the cabin noise while running is really at 50hz at all, especially with stock exhaust., Maybe, we'll see...

I think, and i might be completely wrong, that Porsche approaches Bose with very specific needs, which includes: Manufactures cost, space/weight requirements and marketing. I'm in the audio market for some time now, and believe me: it's all about compromises. All the time.
When it's not about money (and it's always about money somehow..) it's about space requirements (home or car audio). And when it's not about money or space, it's about architectural acoustics (concert halls, opera, etc..)

Yes that's true. When i was younger, i did SPL competition and that was very challenging because loading a car with amps and subwoofers wasnt enough to win.
However, that makes look Bose even more amateur. They should've use different bandpass enclosure tuning so the bass response would be more balanced.
In fact, they shouldnt have use a bandpass enclosure at all; they can't go below 40hz anyway with such small space and they are restricted above 60hz because... it's a bandpass enclosure! (the name say it all)

But why chose a bandpass then ? Because no one can touch and damage the (hiden) transducer... Because it gives an awesome output with not much of poweramp and transducer... because you save on xover... because when it distorts you hear it less...

and i'm curious to see if there's any tweeter in that car or just wideband small 2 or 3 inches drivers.. For the same type of reasons..

I tell you: the whole design was made for PRACTICAL reasons on Porsche side benefits, not customers (even non-audiophile ones)

 

Hey guys - great thread. Wish I had the time to contribute as much as has been said here. The Bose is certainly not the best, but not the worst. I dumped $2k into my E36 M3 and the sound still was sub par. I had the HK system in my E46 M3 and that was really crap compared to the 997.1 system. Good measured results - supports the boomy bass I hear without the real kick drum that should be there. And it is way too limited by the bass and treble controls. I added the Dension for the iPod and that was a good improvement. Better source, better sound. Download with lossless compression. Better do that before you mess with the system.
When someone changes the head unit, bypasses the amp and changes the speakers, you've just installed a completely new system. That costs bucks. The OP started looking for low cost alternatives like a speaker change. I would recommend the Dension as a low cost improvement. Still don't think I've seen/heard about a speaker change.
I've got tons in home gear - Jeff Rowland, Parasound, Aerial Acoustics. I've resigned myself that spending thousands in the car isn't worth it. Biggest thing for me is the potential LOSS of value by swapping out the head unit. P drivers are fanatical about STOCK stuff. Not sure I want to buy a used car where someone has messed with the electricals. Only if I'VE messed with them. But I wouldn't trust anyone else. Not sure I would buy a car with an aftermarket head unit. Just my opinion. And don't let anyone's opinion guide what YOU want to do. I mod my car however I want. BUT I still guide some of the mods by how they will affect the used car value.

 

I set up my wiring, head unit, amp bypass, etc where if I want to put the original PCM back in, I can and it will go back to 100% stock...

But, why would I or anyone else want do this??? Again the PCM 2.1 is pure crap...

 

I think this is the biggest reason why p-car owners don't want to change the head unit: we're always concerned with the resale value and know that any future owner is "fanatical about stock stuff". But in the case of the Bose system, stock SUCKS.

 

In my case - I agree it does but I would never replace PCM with anything else. It just will not be Porsche anymore. I do not care about amps in the trunk and anything else that is hidden from view - but PCM is a front item, so, no, no way. Even if it stinks - it stays, just because it`s the brand.

 

As long as you can put it back, as with socalsteve's, should be OK. But you are right - no matter what upgrade you do, it is likely also to be "crap" by the time you sell the car - technology changes so quickly - let the next guy pick his own solution.

Although better speakers, if that helps, would be nice and invisible.

 

I really like that unit Mdrums told us about - investigating now how to put it in and will try probably to re-wire this thing and to run it with stock speakers first to see how it changes anything. Just need to choose correct amp to work with this processor and check how much space I have there in trunk area. I do not have Bose BTW, just ASK base amp, so, will see.

But most likely witout proper crossovers (and good speakers attached to them) any solution will not help much.


One more question - does anybody know - in non-Bose cars, is that rear deck where Bose cars have subwoofer - is it pre-wired or not in base cars with no Bose?

 

I dont understand this thinking AT ALL...If you get a nice bezel that matches the interior, fits well and you have the ability to put it back to "stock" if you ever decide to sell the car...Then why not get something that replaces an out of date and lousy piece of technology???

 

I'd buy this argument if your car was completely stock, but by looking at your signature it's obvious that it is not. Can you please explain why the PCM is so holy compared to the other parts? You even have a non-porsche steering wheel!

 

Steering wheel is a convinience item plus non-Porsche part of it is leather only. Rest of interior is not. PCM is a part of interior, plus I like to have trip computer options and other interface options that are connected to the ECU.

So replacing PCM for me in the steering wheel analogy would be an install on non-Porsche made airbag, for an example.

Plus believe me, entering into Porsche and seeing word 'Pioneer' lowers its class. If it at least would be 'B&O' or 'Lexicon' or at least 'Nakamichi' - well, may be. But no Pioneer, Akai, Sony, Yamaha or any other mass production brand label will ever pop up in my car interior. Mixing Pioneer and Porsche simply does not work, at least for me. Is it snobbish? May be, but, still, no cigar.

 

Fair point I guess. I just hope you'll never pull your PCM unit out to discover that it's made by Becker

 

I have to agree with SoCalSteve. If you can do a bolt-in stock-appearing upgrade like he did and keep the removed items that the next owner could put bolt back in if they wanted, there should be no issue. Then you get to enjoy the latest technology features that are today minimal requirements in most cars -- like bluetooth. Why spend thousands with add-on patch devices to have something less anyway when a bolt-in, clean upgrade like Steve's is available that could easily be returned to stock?

When I had my final year, low-mile, 1989 930 factory Slantnose of which only 40 were made that year, I definitely wanted the factory Blaupunct AM/FM cassette player in there. But 997s aren't collector cars, they're just cars. To each his own -- it's your car after all -- but the attitude of "must stay stock" even if stock is too complicated, expensive and crap (did you see the thread about the guy trying replace his broken PCM 3.0 and couldn't get satellite back on a retrofit? Geez!) when superior, reversable, less expensive alternatives are available is a little over the top. Most of use our 997s as cars and they depreciate like cars...why not have the conveniences you expect in expensive cars? People upgrade suspensions, tires, wheels and add bumpers and spoilers all the time. How is that any different?

That being said, I like to keep my Porsches stock as well. I would not add anything that involved cutting or I couldn't reverse -- especially with wiring -- and do keep my changes to a minimum. However, on NAV/Sound/BT etc technology if I were changing I'd want the best technology and performance and at reasonable cost. PCM doesn't qualify for that.

 

Marketing at its finest...

Sometimes a name is just that. And, sometimes mass production is better...Like in the case of a Pioneer or Kenwood.

You stick with your outdated and crappy technology. Some of us will forge ahead and put the best in our vehicles, no matter what the product is named.

 

Reality is a perception. Perception of Pioneer is that its owner cannot afford Krell or Mark Levinson.

I sort of agree with you on your points but still, Pioneer is a Pioneer. And 997 is better Pioneer-free IMHO.