got smoked by a GTR this morn!
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I don't know if this has been posted and/or discussed. For a bit of reference...modded GT-R vs. Bugatti
To be frank (real world objective performance aside), a regular 997 Carrera S is not THE answer for all subjective measures either. Whether you like the the way how the GT-R drives or looks, you have to admire how Nissan could pack so much performance in a $85K car.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s8O5n...layer_embedded
To be frank (real world objective performance aside), a regular 997 Carrera S is not THE answer for all subjective measures either. Whether you like the the way how the GT-R drives or looks, you have to admire how Nissan could pack so much performance in a $85K car.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s8O5n...layer_embedded
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As far as which car is 'better'...that question is only answered once the modifications are removed from the equation. The only real way to do this, is to look at GT race track results. This will play out for us over the next few years. The competition will only drive Porsche to build faster, better 911 line ups.
No doubt the Skyline & GT's have been around for awhile and have won a bunch of GT races a long time ago...but their history has major gaps. Its a shame the GTR line was discontinued so many times. Decades in between programs? The GTR/Skyline generations are hugely different due to the long periods of innactivity. There isn't much bridging the generations.
I just don't see the consistent evolution and refinement that you see with other cars (which haven't been discontinued for long periods) and retain the heritage and soul (Corvette, 911).
I just don't see the consistent evolution and refinement that you see with other cars (which haven't been discontinued for long periods) and retain the heritage and soul (Corvette, 911).
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The badge snobs are out in full force... this thread might as well be moved to the "Turbo" or "GT" sections.
As for boring to drive... that can be easily remedied w/ a standard transmission, although I doubt there are plans for that. I guess to give a car soul, you need to make it struggle to achieve a lap time.
My only gripe w/ the GTR is the exterior. But an article in Automobile Mag stated that the GTR was designed to be brutish-looking (as noted by some people here) instead of streamlined, like EVERY other car manufacturer. If the car looked better, I would have a much harder time choosing between a GTR and a 997.
As for boring to drive... that can be easily remedied w/ a standard transmission, although I doubt there are plans for that. I guess to give a car soul, you need to make it struggle to achieve a lap time.
My only gripe w/ the GTR is the exterior. But an article in Automobile Mag stated that the GTR was designed to be brutish-looking (as noted by some people here) instead of streamlined, like EVERY other car manufacturer. If the car looked better, I would have a much harder time choosing between a GTR and a 997.
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As far as which car is 'better'...that question is only answered once the modifications are removed from the equation. The only real way to do this, is to look at GT race track results. This will play out for us over the next few years. The competition will only drive Porsche to build faster, better 911 line ups.
No doubt the Skyline & GT's have been around for awhile and have won a bunch of GT races a long time ago...but their history has major gaps. Its a shame the GTR line was discontinued so many times. Decades in between programs? The GTR/Skyline generations are hugely different due to the long periods of innactivity. There isn't much bridging the generations.
I just don't see the consistent evolution and refinement that you see with other cars (which haven't been discontinued for long periods) and retain the heritage and soul (Corvette, 911).
No doubt the Skyline & GT's have been around for awhile and have won a bunch of GT races a long time ago...but their history has major gaps. Its a shame the GTR line was discontinued so many times. Decades in between programs? The GTR/Skyline generations are hugely different due to the long periods of innactivity. There isn't much bridging the generations.
I just don't see the consistent evolution and refinement that you see with other cars (which haven't been discontinued for long periods) and retain the heritage and soul (Corvette, 911).
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Again, (with a proper driver) a 997TT.1 is as fast or faster than a stock GT-R. No modifications required. This has already been proven.
Around a roadcourse however, the GT-R is the faster car, if that's what you are saying.
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Definitely a lot of badge snobs on this post. If this were boxing and we had to judge who the stronger fighter is "pound for pound" (in this case, i'm using price as the normalizing factor), the GTR would knock out the Porsche in the 1st rd. Period. I own my own C2S liike most of us here on this site and have no plans or desires to switch over to a GTR, but the guys saying a 997.2 TTS can smoke a stock GTR just don't get it. It costs TWICE as much! it SHOULD outperform. The equivalent p-car in the GTR price range is a 997S and on performance alone the GTR dominates. The other "qualatative" factors such as overall cabin feel, preference for the body shape, history, lineage...etc are serioulsy skewing most of the opinions on this thread (as one would almost expect on a porsche board).
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I think you have hit the nail on the head. I came to the GT-R from a E90 M3 with the DCT transmission and I found the GT-R more entertaining to drive than the M3. The GT-R has better steering and brake feel while giving up little in overall chassis tuning to the much praised BMW. However, both cars lack that extra layer of driver involvement that comes from rowing your own gears. My next car will have three pedals because I miss that aspect of driving.
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Saying that the GT-R is just a Nissan (or Japanese), especially after a loss in a drag race or whatever, is a pretty pathetic and d-baggy reason to justify your purchase over one. This is more apparent when it is the Porsche driver instigating the race. I know this isn't everybody on this thread, but you might as well beat a Ferrari owner and have them say the same thing to you.
They are fast cars for relatively cheap. Is there anything wrong w/ that?
They are fast cars for relatively cheap. Is there anything wrong w/ that?
Please show me where I said it is just a Nissan. I never put the car down, just simply stated that I dont care for the looks of the inerior and exterior...which is my subjective opinion.
This was a fun experience for me whether I win or lose, and I would do it again because that is why I love performance cars.
I approach this forum for info and entertainment and I dont understand why some people need to come on here and try to insult each other with name calling and such.
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It is Porsche vs World, in here.
As a proud owner of the worst handling and slowest 997 (targa 4)...I'm not afraid to admit that all the other P-forum cars in this thread have mine beat on performance. However, $ for $ is a hugely different issue: 85,000 Nissan GTR dollars > 85,000 Porsche 997 dollars.
As a proud owner of the worst handling and slowest 997 (targa 4)...I'm not afraid to admit that all the other P-forum cars in this thread have mine beat on performance. However, $ for $ is a hugely different issue: 85,000 Nissan GTR dollars > 85,000 Porsche 997 dollars.
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Definitely a lot of badge snobs on this post. If this were boxing and we had to judge who the stronger fighter is "pound for pound" (in this case, i'm using price as the normalizing factor), the GTR would knock out the Porsche in the 1st rd. Period. I own my own C2S liike most of us here on this site and have no plans or desires to switch over to a GTR, but the guys saying a 997.2 TTS can smoke a stock GTR just don't get it. It costs TWICE as much! it SHOULD outperform. The equivalent p-car in the GTR price range is a 997S and on performance alone the GTR dominates. The other "qualatative" factors such as overall cabin feel, preference for the body shape, history, lineage...etc are serioulsy skewing most of the opinions on this thread (as one would almost expect on a porsche board).
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Please show me where I said it is just a Nissan. I never put the car down, just simply stated that I dont care for the looks of the inerior and exterior...which is my subjective opinion.
This was a fun experience for me whether I win or lose, and I would do it again because that is why I love performance cars.
I approach this forum for info and entertainment and I dont understand why some people need to come on here and try to insult each other with name calling and such.
This was a fun experience for me whether I win or lose, and I would do it again because that is why I love performance cars.
I approach this forum for info and entertainment and I dont understand why some people need to come on here and try to insult each other with name calling and such.
Trust me, I am much more repsect on 6speed than on the BMW board I used to frequent... especially since everybody makes way more than me.
Last edited by jherbias; Jul 28, 2010 at 01:23 PM.
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My comments were not directed at you... notice I did not quote you. Also notice the statement, "this isn't everybody in this thread." They are just my opinions of people in general who need to go down the "it's just a XXXX" route when losing to a car of somewhat lesser-perceived pedigree.
Trust me, I am much more repsect on 6speed than on the BMW board I used to frequent... especially since everybody makes way more than me.
Trust me, I am much more repsect on 6speed than on the BMW board I used to frequent... especially since everybody makes way more than me.
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That's the only part where we don't agree. I know for a fact that a 997.1TT is as fast or faster than a stock GT-R in a straight line. No mods required. They run almost the same 1/4 mile times, but the 997TT.1 is faster as the speed increases. It runs a quicker 60-130 time and 0-300 km/h, and reaches higher mph in the standing mile.
Again, (with a proper driver) a 997TT.1 is as fast or faster than a stock GT-R. No modifications required. This has already been proven.
Around a roadcourse however, the GT-R is the faster car, if that's what you are saying.
Again, (with a proper driver) a 997TT.1 is as fast or faster than a stock GT-R. No modifications required. This has already been proven.
Around a roadcourse however, the GT-R is the faster car, if that's what you are saying.
In my very limited brief sprints with my current setup .. I pulled one off the line and had had 1 full length out of first gear. That was enough for me. Gtr driver was amazed.
Another GtR had a 4 car length head start plus he had momentum and hit the pedal first and within a few seconds I caught him.
The stock Turbo would have faced a much tougher time. Maybe you're right.. but either way --it would be close .
I had consided a GtR to replace my 4th car (The Honda Si) at some point but there's a few things i don't like aout the car . I don't like the explanation given about launch cointrol . I don't like the customer waiver where the manufacturer has customers sign off in advance on certain warranty items.
Last edited by yrralis1; Jul 28, 2010 at 02:19 PM.
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I keep thinking back to when my Turbo was stock . It seemed so slow in contrast to what it has become with time. The GtR really has some very impressive shifts and I have seen a few videos on yoitube of the Gtr beating the stock tt. It seems plausible . My car was stock for only the first 200 miles so its hard to remember.
In my very limited brief sprints with my current setup .. I pulled one off the line and had had 1 full length out of first gear. That was enough for me. Gtr driver was amazed.
Another GtR had a 4 car length head start plus he had momentum and hit the pedal first and within a few seconds I caught him.
The stock Turbo would have faced a much tougher time. Maybe you're right.. but either way --it would be close .
I had consided a GtR to replace my 4th car (The Honda Si) at some point but there's a few things i don't like aout the car . I don't like the explanation given about launch cointrol . I don't like the customer waiver where the manufacturer has customers sign off in advance on certain warranty items.
In my very limited brief sprints with my current setup .. I pulled one off the line and had had 1 full length out of first gear. That was enough for me. Gtr driver was amazed.
Another GtR had a 4 car length head start plus he had momentum and hit the pedal first and within a few seconds I caught him.
The stock Turbo would have faced a much tougher time. Maybe you're right.. but either way --it would be close .
I had consided a GtR to replace my 4th car (The Honda Si) at some point but there's a few things i don't like aout the car . I don't like the explanation given about launch cointrol . I don't like the customer waiver where the manufacturer has customers sign off in advance on certain warranty items.
This is a stock GT-R vs a stock 997.1 GT2:
http://www.youtube.com/user/m5boardd.../3/Q3GVoXbUeH4
And this is a stock GT-R vs a stock 997.2TT PDK:
http://www.youtube.com/user/m5boardd...37/ee6T-TIzTk4
Last edited by Divexxtreme; Jul 28, 2010 at 04:56 PM.