Why is the labor for RMS still 800 if they're already doing the IMS upgrade. I thought all these parts were in the same area and labor wouldn't be much extra to install the other parts while they're in there and everything is already opened up. The RMS seal itself is only 20.00

 

We're doing the repair here in my shop...

Our labor rate is $112 per hour.

The Flywheel seal(RMS) replacement, including removal of the transmission is $803.72

The L&N retrofit(IMS) will be done while the transmission is out. The additional labor to do the retrofit is $392. The parts, including the retrofit kit ($519), Oil and filter($107.75), and cam plugs and seals totals $680.47.

Total including tax runs $1941.26 which includes RMS, IMS, and oil change.

Labor changing the flywheel)RMS) seal includes: removing and resinstalling the underbody panels, removing and reisnstalling the rear sway bar, removing and reinstalling the trans mounts, loosening and tightening the slave cylinder, removing wires and cables from the trans, inspecting trans oil level and topping off as necessary, removing and reinstalling the clutch and flywheel, and removing and installing the new seal.

Labor changing the IMS bearing and flange includes: Draining engine oil, locking the crankshaft and camshaft positions, removing and reinstalling the chain tensioner cover, removing the intermediate shaft cover, removing the factory intermidiate shaft bearing and replacing with the new upgraded bearing and cover.

 

thanks for clarifying everything for board members Eric! Looking forward to getting my car back from you guys.

Marc

 

Thanks Eric, now since removing and reinstalling clutch and flywheel is incl. in the labor of changing the RMS seal, would it essentially be free of charge to just reinstall a new clutch and new LWFW when putting everything back together?

 

Yep, but we replaced his clutch disc, pressure plate, pilot bearing, release lever, guide tube, RMS seal, and slave cylinder a little over 15k miles ago.

His leaking RMS would have been covered under warranty had it been within the 12 month/12k mile warranty period, and also not due to the failed the AOS. We did take about $1k off of the price I listed above for the *good guy* deal since it was fairly recent. Wish we could have saved him some on the AOS job though, in the $300-400 range below what he paid.

Happy to help, I'll try and check back for any more questions I may be able to help with.

 

Sounds good, I will probably give you guys a visit to do the LNE IMS, RMS, clutch and LWFW all at the same time to save on labor then.

 

Are there any other issues with the engine that could spring up due to the loss of oil? Low compression or anything like that?

 

The engine typically does not lose much oil during an AOS failure. In extreme cases, like this one, oil will make it's way into the intake and get burnt up, causing the smoke he saw. But not causing a significant loss of oil in the sump leading to oil pressure loss or anything like that.

This oil making it's way into the combustion chamber *could* hydrolock your motor in an extrme case. Now I haven't heard of this happening in a 997, or any car not on track at the time. But in theory, it could happen when a large amount of the oil in the cobustion chamber will not compress and damage the rod or the rod bearings.

Also, when this oil goes though the combustion chamber, it has a chance of fouling the spark plugs, and/or contaminating the catalytic convertors.

Another problem the AOS failure can cause is the extreme vacuum in the crankcase can dislodge seals. In this case, the flywheel seal(RMS) was dislodged and created an oil leak. It is also somewhat common to move the spark plug tube o-ring seals and cause a leak.

If you're worried about the AOS, an easy way to inspect would be to remove you oil fill cap while the engine is running. If the cap is literally sucked on to the filler neck with extreme vacuum and you cannot remove it, the AOS is likely bad. Sometimes you can spot a faulty AOS before the check engine light comes on using this method. Not a perfect test by any means, but something we use quickly here in the shop.

 

Is what we call the "AOS" the same part referred to as the "oil mist collector" by Porsche?

 

FYI.
In case anyone is wondering. The sequence of the AOS failure happened in a matter of 2 seconds.
I experienced an erratic rpm and my check engine light came on immediately as I'm looking at smoke out the back.
I was coming off a downhill off ramp and I shut the engine off immediately and coasted to a stop within about 50 yards.
This literally took about 10 seconds from rpm to full stop.

 

Eric,

Thanks for taking the time to explain the AOS/RMS/IMS repairs. I think it will help others in making a more informed decision when looking at the total picture of doing a replacement/upgrade in the future.

 

I have not heard them refer to it as an "oil mist collector" but that should be the same part that we are referring to. I've heard "oil separator", "Air-Oil Seperator"(where AOS comes from), and "Vapor-Oil Seperator"(where VOS comes from).

Porsche's official term in their parts description in PET parts software is "oil separator", part # 996-107-026-51

 

Eric,

Is this the GT3 AOS that some think is a superior part? Do you have a view on the merits (or lack therof) of using the version for the GT3?

 

No, I listed the stock AOS for a 997. I do not believe there is an AOS on a GT3 motor.
For an AOS upgrade on our 996, 986, and 987 race cars we use the "motorsport" or "X-51" version of the AOS. Which is a dual chambered unit, part # 996-107-926-00. I have yet to install one on a 997 and cannot confirm that it physically will fit. Fitting them to the other cars is quite a chore typically requiring about 10 hours of labor and some modifications.
Stock part cost around $110, "motorsport" version is around $750
I do not see a need for you guys to be upgrading your AOS to anything other than stock for street usage.

 

Eric, thanks very much for the clarification!