New member; price check
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85K will also put you in a 2007 GT3, more options to think about. No IMS issues to worry about. Not as comfortable as a GT3, certainly more fun getting from point A to B.
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Gotta chime in on this one. The market is really out of wack. Consider that some have seen 10% discounts on new 2011s, which are basically one year old used cars. If you take 10% off that car, you are at 107. The price is only $18k less than you would pay for a 2011, which is 2 years newer and brand new with a 4 year warranty. Only $9k per year??? That's ridiculous. The market is just way too strong for used cars.
Even consider that the typical residual on a 3 year lease is about 60%. That would take that car down to about $72k - and it is 3 years old as 2012's are on the lots. Also consider that there are some GTS demos kicking around for $100k.
Could be a statement that new car is a much better value. Or another statement that we are being lulled into believing that these cars are holding there value incredibly well. The reality will probably be that there will be a huge catch up in depreciation when the 991 hits and the value of the used 997 will get crushed. (Or rather brought back to reality).
Where is the value? Maybe in a turbo. At least that car is now in the 90's for an '08 and the retail was 150-160. A bit more value there, but it is 4 years old and that is maybe only 35% depreciation. Still not that fantastic.
Even consider that the typical residual on a 3 year lease is about 60%. That would take that car down to about $72k - and it is 3 years old as 2012's are on the lots. Also consider that there are some GTS demos kicking around for $100k.
Could be a statement that new car is a much better value. Or another statement that we are being lulled into believing that these cars are holding there value incredibly well. The reality will probably be that there will be a huge catch up in depreciation when the 991 hits and the value of the used 997 will get crushed. (Or rather brought back to reality).
Where is the value? Maybe in a turbo. At least that car is now in the 90's for an '08 and the retail was 150-160. A bit more value there, but it is 4 years old and that is maybe only 35% depreciation. Still not that fantastic.
Keep in mind that the Op is shopping in Cincinatti which isn't exacly a hot spot for these cars . Regions like Southern California , Florida , and even some spots in the Northeast tend to have more dealership competition as well as cars .Nonetheless there is still no excuse for the asking price of that car .
The only point i disagree on is regarding resale on the 997 when the 991 comes out . With most cars a redesign often drops the value of the previous car but it's been my experience with both the 993 and even the 996 they held value . For example -- currently a 75K 2002 996 will still retail at approx 25- 30K with decent miles and condition (10 years later) .
Lastly .. he's looking at 2009 cars . The production numbers for cars for the 09 cars was so large that if one recalls there was an excess surplus of cars at the port which some dealerships didn't even want .
So what's that car really worth ? 75-80K with CPO at best . They missed the boat on his 85K offer (in my opinion) .
The new car at 107K is spot on as the better value overall.
If that's too high .. then the best value is to keep his savings .
Last edited by yrralis1; Oct 5, 2011 at 11:02 PM.
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FWIW, the lowest priced 2009 C4S Cab w/CPO on Porsche.com in the US is $85k with 31,000 miles (nearly 4x what he is looking at). The average is about $90k. Here in the Midwest, there is no way the car he is looking at is going to sell for $75,000. Nor can I imagine any dealer in California would take $15,000 off the listed price of a used car.
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FWIW, the lowest priced 2009 C4S Cab w/CPO on Porsche.com in the US is $85k with 31,000 miles (nearly 4x what he is looking at). The average is about $90k. Here in the Midwest, there is no way the car he is looking at is going to sell for $75,000. Nor can I imagine any dealer in California would take $15,000 off the listed price of a used car.
No doubt the asking prices are high .. and that's why I say if one has to over pay it may as well be a new car . My opinion --Let them KEEP the grossly overpriced used car and wish them the best with THEIR car . In fact let them keep the new car too if they reject a respectable discount . It's the buyer who has the advantage .. not the seller.
In fact over time the new car is actually priced better than the 90K 09 car .
If you have any doubts .. try and trade in a car and see what it's really worth .
Last edited by yrralis1; Oct 5, 2011 at 11:32 PM.
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wkendriver,
Is the car you are looking at located at POV? I saw them moving a grey cab out of the back showroom yesterday. Nice looking cab. I was there looking at an 11 GTS and trying to work a trade on my 09 C2S.
I've been happy with my purchases from them and they have outstanding service.
Is the car you are looking at located at POV? I saw them moving a grey cab out of the back showroom yesterday. Nice looking cab. I was there looking at an 11 GTS and trying to work a trade on my 09 C2S.
I've been happy with my purchases from them and they have outstanding service.
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What seems clear is that used car prices are over inflated. Buy a car and enjoy it. But if you are really interested in "timing" the investment a bit, this is not a great time to buy a used car. At some point, "real" value will happen and the used car prices will come back to normal and you will face greater than average depreciation. New cars seem to represent the best "value" at the moment.
Most interesting to see the discounts on some of the GTS's. I wonder what will happen with them in 3 years? They could prove to be a great used car value as the 991 will be out and the GTS is just a great 997.
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We love to get into this debate. Even if the car is WORTH $75k, it doesn't mean you're going to find one for that much. Certainly the market seems closer to $90k. If you think gold is worth $1200/oz. doesn't mean you're going to be able to buy it for that much.
What seems clear is that used car prices are over inflated. Buy a car and enjoy it. But if you are really interested in "timing" the investment a bit, this is not a great time to buy a used car. At some point, "real" value will happen and the used car prices will come back to normal and you will face greater than average depreciation. New cars seem to represent the best "value" at the moment.
Most interesting to see the discounts on some of the GTS's. I wonder what will happen with them in 3 years? They could prove to be a great used car value as the 991 will be out and the GTS is just a great 997.
What seems clear is that used car prices are over inflated. Buy a car and enjoy it. But if you are really interested in "timing" the investment a bit, this is not a great time to buy a used car. At some point, "real" value will happen and the used car prices will come back to normal and you will face greater than average depreciation. New cars seem to represent the best "value" at the moment.
Most interesting to see the discounts on some of the GTS's. I wonder what will happen with them in 3 years? They could prove to be a great used car value as the 991 will be out and the GTS is just a great 997.
.
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What they ask and what they get are two separate things .
No doubt the asking prices are high .. and that's why I say if one has to over pay it may as well be a new car . My opinion --Let them KEEP the grossly overpriced used car and wish them the best with THEIR car . In fact let them keep the new car too if they reject a respectable discount . It's the buyer who has the advantage .. not the seller.
In fact over time the new car is actually priced better than the 90K 09 car .
If you have any doubts .. try and trade in a car and see what it's really worth .
No doubt the asking prices are high .. and that's why I say if one has to over pay it may as well be a new car . My opinion --Let them KEEP the grossly overpriced used car and wish them the best with THEIR car . In fact let them keep the new car too if they reject a respectable discount . It's the buyer who has the advantage .. not the seller.
In fact over time the new car is actually priced better than the 90K 09 car .
If you have any doubts .. try and trade in a car and see what it's really worth .
I do have doubts, I spent 6 months researching the used Porsche market before making a purchase at the end of June so I'm pretty familiar with used car values. I also traded in my old Porsche and know what I got for it and what my dealer sold it for. Actual numbers, not opinions on perceived value.
As it has been said in here and other threads on the subject, used car prices are high right now. But the market dictates those prices. Not someone's opinion.
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Don't believe there will be a correction in prices? I bought my 997s in August 2009. Car is at a dealer today for the same price I paid! Granted, it will sell for less no doubt, but man it is a tough time to scratch that Porsche itch.
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This feels all totally out of whack. I know it would be a non S, no options, blah blah...but you can get a base, brand new 991 for less than what they are asking for a nearly 4 year old 4s. Just saying....
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Just an observation.....
The 2009 cars were heavily discounted and possibly people opted to buy the cars instead of lease and are hanging onto the cars. That could account for the shortage of used 997.2
autos.
Industry wide there seems to be a shortage of used cars... Usually that means people are holding on to their cars and not buying new... Can you blame them?
Personally I'm thrilled that the 997.2 cars are holding their value.... I could probably get pretty close to what I paid, within reason...
The 2009 cars were heavily discounted and possibly people opted to buy the cars instead of lease and are hanging onto the cars. That could account for the shortage of used 997.2
autos.
Industry wide there seems to be a shortage of used cars... Usually that means people are holding on to their cars and not buying new... Can you blame them?
Personally I'm thrilled that the 997.2 cars are holding their value.... I could probably get pretty close to what I paid, within reason...
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I agree.....I paid 79K C2S 2009 NEW... I check prices from time to time of that year car and it's holding up pretty darn well. I'll be looking at the 991 cars in February.....
Last edited by jakesdad; Oct 6, 2011 at 06:39 PM.
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If the OP wants a cab, and isn't in a hurry, he can wait until December or January when the market for used cabs is typically soft. I picked my used 06 at a Denver dealer in January 2010 when sales were slow and dealer was willing to negotiate. I got the asking price (which wasn't far out of whack for retail) down about 10% and got the BS documentation fee waived too. Then had the car shipped to So Cal (didn't want to drive it in winter conditions). Good luck.
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In 2009 a 3 year old car (2006) sold in the 50's . That's a huge price disparity from being rejected at 85K.