First hand test drive: 997S / AM Vantage / M3CS
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Originally Posted by Dave07997S
Lee Rutter ran a 12.3@112mph with his 02 M3 with a AFE intake, eurobahn software, 4.10 gears and no back seats along with some slicks. Completely stock exhaust. I know another M3 that has run 12.80's @110mph with nothing more than 3.91 gears and midpipe along with some software and drag radials. Straightline speed is very comparative...for people who have kids having a back seat is a big thing along with a stroller. Not to mention the price difference between the 2 cars.
I loved my 04 E46 M3, my car was as yours with full exhaust, 4.10 gears and such and I ran neck and neck with a 997S, not to mention the Merc SLK55 that I smoked which he swore ran 12.70's at the track.
The Cayman's pricing doesn't make sense to me...by the time you get the goodies you are in base 997 territory, not to mention the real competitor to the Cayman S for the BMW is not the M3 but the MCoupe.
Dave
I loved my 04 E46 M3, my car was as yours with full exhaust, 4.10 gears and such and I ran neck and neck with a 997S, not to mention the Merc SLK55 that I smoked which he swore ran 12.70's at the track.
The Cayman's pricing doesn't make sense to me...by the time you get the goodies you are in base 997 territory, not to mention the real competitor to the Cayman S for the BMW is not the M3 but the MCoupe.
Dave
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Originally Posted by AlgaeHater
I've owned both a modified M3 and 997S (see sig). While I liked the M3 for what it was, there's simply no comparison to the 997S. The 997S is superior in every way possible except for daily driver duties. I couldn't imagine "scoring" it above the 997S in any sort of comparison. To me, a 997S is worth every penny over the price of an M3.
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Originally Posted by AlgaeHater
I've owned both a modified M3 and 997S (see sig). While I liked the M3 for what it was, there's simply no comparison to the 997S. The 997S is superior in every way possible except for daily driver duties. I couldn't imagine "scoring" it above the 997S in any sort of comparison. To me, a 997S is worth every penny over the price of an M3.
I've driven my cousin's m3, and I feel that his interior lacks drama (tach cluster in the 997 is very purposeful vs the m3's). The overall package of the alcantara headliner, thicker steering wheel, and raspy engine noise makes the 997s the sportier car to me, so much so, that when I test drove the Vantage, I called it "too soft" (the vantage had a loud noise, but only when the windows were open and mashing the throttle). I feel that the vantage is more in the m3/m6 market of buyers since the 911 is all together in a different league. The fact that you can custom order options to cover those black plastic interior pieces (which I do also have an issue with) makes the 911 perfect!
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Oh,and what's with the interior comparo?
Agreed,the base interior isnt the best in the 997.. But add a few options (which I am sure,one is capable of ,if you buy a car that expensive), and the interior is as good,if not better,than any of those cars.. What say?
Agreed,the base interior isnt the best in the 997.. But add a few options (which I am sure,one is capable of ,if you buy a car that expensive), and the interior is as good,if not better,than any of those cars.. What say?
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writer response 2
Originally Posted by Duane
I think the 0 to 60 times are way off. Having owned one 4.5, 0 to 60 for the M3 is a big stretch, as well as 3.9 for a 997s. My e55 will walk away especially off the line from a 997s. The e55 is rated in the mid to low 4's.
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Cover options
Originally Posted by spyder997s
The fact that you can custom order options to cover those black plastic interior pieces (which I do also have an issue with) makes the 911 perfect!
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Originally Posted by Rams86
All three 0 to 60 times were achieved by U.S. magazines and are the best times I've seen (as noted by "best" in the chart) - Road & Track for the Vantage and 997S, Car & Driver for the M3. That was one heck of a fast Carrera S, eh?! and it did not even have the power kit, just the standard 355hp. More typical times would be something like 5.1 for Vantage, 4.8 for M3 CS, and 4.4 for 997S.
For the M3 there were several 4.6-4.7 times by Road and Track and Motortrend. The M3CSL will even better that but it was hobbled by the SMG.
Don't really care what the Aston did. It is down right gorgeous but IMHO not a serious performance car.
Dave
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Originally Posted by ecks
Oh,and what's with the interior comparo?
Agreed,the base interior isnt the best in the 997.. But add a few options (which I am sure,one is capable of ,if you buy a car that expensive), and the interior is as good,if not better,than any of those cars.. What say?
Agreed,the base interior isnt the best in the 997.. But add a few options (which I am sure,one is capable of ,if you buy a car that expensive), and the interior is as good,if not better,than any of those cars.. What say?
Dave
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thx for sharing but the vanquish S absolutely annihilates the cutesy amv8 in the looks dept. no question. jayz and beyonce would roll a vanq S, never an AmV8. ****, look at the price diff alone. completely different leagues.
similarly, that M3 "CS"is many leagues below any water cooled porsche 911 in the driving dept. i got one last year, put about 12K miles on it, then sold it cuz frankly i got bored with the German Accord esp coming from a supercharged s2000 prior. no offense.
similarly, that M3 "CS"is many leagues below any water cooled porsche 911 in the driving dept. i got one last year, put about 12K miles on it, then sold it cuz frankly i got bored with the German Accord esp coming from a supercharged s2000 prior. no offense.
Last edited by Benjamin Choi; Jul 6, 2007 at 10:34 PM.
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In reponse to Luthor:
[ Spyder, could you explain the options that you mean? Just wondering.]
You can order PCM in leather:
Plus, eric at bumperplugs can pretty much custom color everything else for you:
[ Spyder, could you explain the options that you mean? Just wondering.]
You can order PCM in leather:
Plus, eric at bumperplugs can pretty much custom color everything else for you:
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I really liked the interior of the aston i test drove: carved aluminum gauges, piano black console option, analog clock, very soft and nicely stitched leather, Bluetooth (!). It seemed to carry all the things the standard 911 didn't.
However, I didn't like the aston's view from cockpit (it was a little more obstructive than the 911), as well as some of the switchgear from volvo (i guess all these companies have issues w/ cheap plastic buttons).
Overall, I agree with your overall comment below, echoing the thought that the aston's interior is a step up in luxury, but is less purposeful (not as "sporty")
The new sport seats for the 911 for '08 will be an excellent option to help the interior out!
However, I didn't like the aston's view from cockpit (it was a little more obstructive than the 911), as well as some of the switchgear from volvo (i guess all these companies have issues w/ cheap plastic buttons).
Overall, I agree with your overall comment below, echoing the thought that the aston's interior is a step up in luxury, but is less purposeful (not as "sporty")
The new sport seats for the 911 for '08 will be an excellent option to help the interior out!
Originally Posted by Dave07997S
No even at it's best the 997 doesn't match up against the Aston. The Brits know how to do interiors. Although I find the 997 more sporting.
Dave
Dave
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Originally Posted by Dave07997S
No even at it's best the 997 doesn't match up against the Aston. The Brits know how to do interiors. Although I find the 997 more sporting.
Dave
Dave
Have to agree there - the AMV8 interior > 997 interior (even w/ full leather) IMO.
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Originally Posted by Rams86
Brian here - writer of said story. responses:
Scoring: I loved all three cars so much! For me, one point is all the separates them. Really.
Brakes: I should have called the category "brakING" as I know Porsche brake hardware is fabulous and the rear-engine helps too. I just had that one bad experience with the shuddering, squeling tires, and gawking ABS in the 997S, so I knocked a point off.
Interior styling: in my humble onpinion the 997 takes last due to 3 things: the gray-metallic plastic center stack, the silver paint trim stripes, and the 120 (I kid) chicklet buttons with touching edges - full-leather is a very nice option, but does not address any of my 3 dislikes. I prefer the obviously real aluminum trim strip and soft-touch black plastic of the M3 CS.
M3 CS vs. Cayman S: I thought for sure I'd buy a Cayman S - all-new 295hp mid-engined Porsche coupe!!! - woo hoo! - no brainer. but for me the test drive left me a little bit flat - super capable, but just did not move me enough for some reason - ? M3 CS steering feel and exploitable chassis dynamics are way preferable for me; hence I ended up testing the Carrera S and putting that into this comparo (and not including the Cayman S, as in my book it would be a distant 4th). side note: My fave British enthusiasts at evo magazine concurred at eCoty 2005 placing the M3 CS 3.1 points ahead of the Cayman S (on their 100 point scale).
Thanks for reading and commenting! -Brian F.
Scoring: I loved all three cars so much! For me, one point is all the separates them. Really.
Brakes: I should have called the category "brakING" as I know Porsche brake hardware is fabulous and the rear-engine helps too. I just had that one bad experience with the shuddering, squeling tires, and gawking ABS in the 997S, so I knocked a point off.
Interior styling: in my humble onpinion the 997 takes last due to 3 things: the gray-metallic plastic center stack, the silver paint trim stripes, and the 120 (I kid) chicklet buttons with touching edges - full-leather is a very nice option, but does not address any of my 3 dislikes. I prefer the obviously real aluminum trim strip and soft-touch black plastic of the M3 CS.
M3 CS vs. Cayman S: I thought for sure I'd buy a Cayman S - all-new 295hp mid-engined Porsche coupe!!! - woo hoo! - no brainer. but for me the test drive left me a little bit flat - super capable, but just did not move me enough for some reason - ? M3 CS steering feel and exploitable chassis dynamics are way preferable for me; hence I ended up testing the Carrera S and putting that into this comparo (and not including the Cayman S, as in my book it would be a distant 4th). side note: My fave British enthusiasts at evo magazine concurred at eCoty 2005 placing the M3 CS 3.1 points ahead of the Cayman S (on their 100 point scale).
Thanks for reading and commenting! -Brian F.