The Bose stereo in the Porsches sucks. Tack on another $5K at least to equal the AM's

 

Don't get me wrong as I'm not beating up A-M or your car choices. I will probably own one at some point as i have been attracted to them since the DB7 and will tire of hard-core eventually. My point is that A-M needs to be practical in a business sense and sell cars. They brought forth the Vantage to sell more cars and to solicit the "stretch" buyer who is stepping up from SL, Jags, regular Porsche, etc. Most of these buyers would not be in DB9 or DBS territory, you guys excepted. I agree that Porsches are waaaaay more common and there is an exclusivity and design execution in an A-M that doesn't exist in a Porsche. Porsche makes so many "sports" cars from Boxster to GT-2 that it appeals to more buyers across many price ranges. Forget about Cayenne sales since that's a bright spot for Porsche when sports cars are down. A-M doesn't have that to "buoy" them. Unless someone wants to pour money into a sink-hole, A-M needs to do something b/c they won't move enough cars to be profitable in the new global economy. Sports car sales are down everywhere and re-sales are even worse. You can say their cars are "more exclusive" or "more nicely done" than Porsches and I agree. Since they start at a higher price-point, my guess is their won't be too many owners pleased with what happens when it's time to unload their new A-M purchase. This will definitely affect repeat-customer new car sales, the mainstay of car manufacturers. Porsche has it in spades. Porsche is an aspirational brand for millions. A-M is for maybe tens of thousands and it's hardly aspirational for most Porsche buyers. Ferrari probably is and Lambo too. An A-M purchase is more of a "different" or "change of pace" buy for someone like you and me. You know you are not buying a hard-core sports car but more of a GT-ish beauty. I would be willing to bet a lot of those people visit, enjoy their time there, and then won't be back.

 

One last thing Red-devil.

Just because a large proportion of buyers who buy a 120k~ car cannot stretch to 200k~, does NOT mean that they are stretching to afford the 120k in the first place.

The reason the market for the DB9/DBS is MUCH smaller is because they are priced stratospherically to the Vantage, which is actually sportier.

The DB9 is really a softer GT car, while the Vantage is the only thing comparable to the 911 range.

It's irrelevant how irrelevant a company's Halo car is to it's "entry level" model, as long as the entry level/volume model can sustain/maintain the sales/exclusivity, the brand is not compromised.

If you look at economic trends, the luxury car market is suffering in general because of the global economy - the remaining buyers that are unfazed by it are wel invested/high net worth. These people are more likely to buy into Aston/Bentley/Maserati than Porsche because of the exclusivity and rarity of the above.

So, as messed up as it sounds, in the current economy, niche manufactuers are less likely to see the bottom fall out than volume companies like Porsche - especially as the 60-100k market (Porsche's bread and butter) is much more likely to soften (due to economic fluctuations) than the 120-250k market.

 

One more thing from me.

I don't think that any of us know the marketing strategy of AM when they make a car. In fact, in speaking to Aston people in England, things have changed since Ford is no longer in control. I really don't think anyone designs a car to be a "STRETCH" for someone to afford from another brand. That's just silly. If anything, the MB SL and porsche lines offer alot of vertical stretching. If anything those managers are trying to stretch their buyers. After all te cars are likely to be right next to each other on a showroom floor. If you don't understand the price premium on these cars, I would encouarge you to sit in one and drive it. They are hand made and have high quality materials everywhere. I've owned 6 Porsches(includind 2 turbos), 2 MBs(including a CLS55), an Audi and 3 BMWs in the last 8 years. This car has a very different feel. There is a quality diffence that doesn't translate into raw performance numbers that can't be explained without spending time in one.

As far coice between Vantage and DB9. These are dramatically different cars. Their design, driving and performance are for different purposes and different buyers, not necessarilly because of price. This is a hard concept for Porsche people because all of the 911's start as the same car and work their way up. I can recall a numer of C2S people telling me at shows that they were looking forward to upgrading to a Turbo like mine when they could.
Moving from a Vantage for me is not going to be a DB9. Being a rag-top person, a just don't care for that car in conv. I will probably consider the DBS in conv or a 12 cyl vantage if they wind up doing that but I'm sure that the Lambo bug will hit again when the LP560 spyder comes out puting me in the same position I was in when I bought the Vantage.

 

Indeed. I don't think as many V8 owners "aspire" to one day move into a DB9/DBS when compared to Boxster/C2 owners that want to get a 911/Turbo respectively.

If there was a 160k Vantage S then maybe, but the 09 basically fills that niche with a larger displacement engine.

I considered the DBS but I think you are not getting double the car for double the price and it would be very conspicuous to drive the car, defeating the purpose of a refined, elegant exotic like the V8.

Even if they DO bring the V12VantageRS to the states, it would be MORE expensive than the DBS so that would be very hard to justify.

For the price of a DBS you can get a V8 AND a GT3/Turbo... again... very hard to justify.

Best regards,

 

Exactly what I went through and the conclusion I drew as well.

I'm with you Moogle. That is exactly what I ended up doing...GT3RS with Vantage as a daily. Best combo IMO...

Are we doppelgängers Moogle? ;-)

 

Cudos for those of you who own both Vantage and GT3. That's really a complete performance stable. I have ambitions of doing this but I'm frankly out of spaces in the garage. I was hoping that the V12 made it into a volante form of the Vantage without being an RS. But I must admit a VantageS down the pike with 450 - 480 Hp would fit the bill. Great point about the cumlative price of Vantage plus GT3 being less than a DBS. The GT3 RS seems to be the all around winner in a number of car challenges that often include the DBS. Having said that, I can't wait to see a DBS Volante. It's the drop-top addict in me.

 

beautiful car

 

Manufacturers create lower price-points to get buyers who otherwise could not afford their other products. I've not driven both, but know the Vantage is "sportier" than the DB9. It is not, however, THE car for someone craving a true sports car.

Price-wise the Vantage is similar to a Turbo, but performance-wise it's more like a 911 S. I'm not bench-racing and know that the cost is reflective of the materials, building process, etc. involved in the A-M. Nice as it may be, the Vantage doesn't have the stuff to sustain/maintain A-M. Seeing them on the road as I often do, they are nothing extra-special. I like them and so do you guys, but they don't elicit much excitement. And I love Astons...

I agree with this, but as I've opined, the Vantage is not "special" enough to lure a lot of these people. Unlike you guys and most 6-speeders they are more the "cars-as-jewelry" set and thus inclined to buy the thing that looks the part. The DB9/DBS does, Ferraris do, Lambos & Bentleys for sure and even the Maser GT has some flash. To these people, if they are getting an A-M, it's the "real" one.

So you are saying A-M is in better shape than Porsche? I don't think so.
If Porsche was only selling sports cars these days then maybe. The 120-250 market is actually 2 markets and not one. Maybe a number of you guys here with Vantages could easily be in DB9s or DBSs, but that would be the minority, not the majority. I'm not comparing A-M cars to Porsche cars because they are 2 different things for different people. My point is/was that even though the Vantage is A-Ms entry-level car price-wise, it WAS NOT created to be the sports car alternative to the DB9. It was created to lure buyers who couldn't afford DB9s and also lure buyers of the Porshe, SL, Jag set who could spend a little more and wanted something different. It happens to be more of a sports car than the DB9 by virtue of the fact that it's smaller, lighter, etc. while maintaining it's Aston-Martin-ness. It will not be the savior of Aston Martin.

 

I beg to differ. I've driven the DB9, DBS, and daily drive a Vantage. For reference, I also drive a GT3RS which is considered a very "hardcore" performance car. Obviously the Vantage is a bit softer and heavier (but somehow "crashier", go figure), but you would be surprised how well it handles and performs. The chassis feels very well balanced, stiff, and communicative. I have not taken the car to the track, but have read about other people who have, and they sing the car's praises. By comparison, the DB9 (Touchtronic automatic) felt agile for its size, bet never quick. The DBS's Delphi Magneride suspension and carbon ceramic brakes are the only thing that really distinguish themselves in driving the car. Otherwise it doesn't feel that much different from a DB9. I believe a manual DB9 Sportspack (on a glass smooth road) would feel almost as good as a DBS.

There are people that would argue that a Carrera S is more of a "true sports car" than a Turbo for instance. From what I've read, a Turbo is faster, but not as involving. Although the "excitement" factor is subjective, I happen to think the Vantage is the most interesting "visually". There are aspects of all the cars in the Aston range I like, but the Vantage I think marries the aggressiveness of the Vanquish with the svelteness and grace of the DB9. Dynamically, the Vantage has all the elements to be a truly involving "sports cars". The aftermarket is taking notice and products for the Vantage will only increase. By that I don't mean a set of big wheels, I'm talking intake and exhaust systems (Gruppe M, et al) , chip tuning (RSC), suspension systems (Intrax), lightweight carbon fiber (Aston Racing), brake systems (Movit), etc. It is affordable (especially used), well balanced, beautiful, and seemingly mod-friendly. Only time will tell

I agree with this statement. Its more a measure of the perceived brand disctinction/exclusivity and has nothing to do with the "real" attributes and performance of the cars. Because the DB9 is more expensive/has a V12/etc. then it "must" be better than the Vantage, which is idiotic. I agree a lot of people that buy these cars are this way.

If they had marketed the DBS as a DB9 Type-R for instance; and priced it around the 190 to 200k range, I would have been all over it. The DBS is a great car, just not 100k greater than a DB9, and certainly not 140k greater than a Vantage. I agree that the people that buy the DBS are not necessarily looking for a good performance/price ratio, but rather, a very exclusive, fast, special car. I could probably afford the DBS, but I value performance, balance, and driving personality in the car more than exclusivity and style. The Vantage fits this equation better for me. The lower price point is just the icing on the cake.

That is debatable. I think its possible that the Vantage is both: something to lure the Porsche buyers as you say, and also be the best handling car in Astons lineup...why not?

 

mdiez1, I agree with a lot of what you say. Some points we disagree on and only time will tell how certain products will fair.

 

and it is very much a hardcore sports car in feel to me. Just have to block out all of that elegant beauty.

I also participated in a little car show last Sunday, that was mostly dominated by Ferraris. I also think my car sounded every bit as good, and surprised most of them.

Don't let its looks fool you.

 

So what's a good price for a new DB9?
I've just called some AM dealers and they 3/4 of them said they have one available at MSRP! I think the high end exotic car market will quickly show the slow economy, especially the things that are happening to investing firms.

 

I bought mine used, 4 months old. Someone bought it to tide him over until his DBS came in, just 2,100 miles on it, and I paid $45K less than he did.

 

oops... sorry typo! I mean, what is a good price for a new DBS?