vantage prices soft?
#46
12-24-2010, 11:57 AM
Relax until your grammar returns. 6speed isn't the AM owners forum. It's a sports car forum with an AM section. If you don't like criticism of it, go hang out on the ever bustling AM board. Oh wait...
Please show me the performance of your 4.3. It's a pleasant daily driver I'm sure, but it's far from a performance car. Sorry, but you won't convince anyone on here that the car packs performance. 380hp, a trans that no one likes, and 3700 lbs. Sorry, those specs don't cut it anymore. Why do you think they shoved a V12 in it?
Honestly, it's very affordable. If people are buying 911's, then they certainly could be buying slightly used AM's. They aren't though. Anyone buying a car of equal or higher price has the ability to buy the Vantage, but they aren't.
The V8 vantage wasn't a heavy hitter when it first came out and the used ones certainly aren't up to par with the likes of the 911, GTR, and others in it's segment.
You like your car. You bought it and it fills whatever role you need it to. That's great. Don't let me get in the way of that, but also don't pretend that it's something that it clearly isn't.
And no GM for me. Only American car I'd ever consider owning is a FGT.
Please show me the performance of your 4.3. It's a pleasant daily driver I'm sure, but it's far from a performance car. Sorry, but you won't convince anyone on here that the car packs performance. 380hp, a trans that no one likes, and 3700 lbs. Sorry, those specs don't cut it anymore. Why do you think they shoved a V12 in it?
Honestly, it's very affordable. If people are buying 911's, then they certainly could be buying slightly used AM's. They aren't though. Anyone buying a car of equal or higher price has the ability to buy the Vantage, but they aren't.
The V8 vantage wasn't a heavy hitter when it first came out and the used ones certainly aren't up to par with the likes of the 911, GTR, and others in it's segment.
You like your car. You bought it and it fills whatever role you need it to. That's great. Don't let me get in the way of that, but also don't pretend that it's something that it clearly isn't.
And no GM for me. Only American car I'd ever consider owning is a FGT.
FYI, I'd never touch the butt-ugly cars like the 911 and GTR that your pushing and if I wanted a track car I'd have a ZR-1. Plus, I really don't care "what other people are buying", sheep-like decision making doesn't work for me.
#48
12-24-2010, 12:52 PM
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Toronto
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come on fellow 6speed brothers, it's almost christmas. lets not get bent out of shape over a mis-worded or misunderstood post. The fact that people all like and look for different things in cars gives our road more variety. Live long and prosper.
#49
12-24-2010, 01:47 PM
Your statements make it pretty clear that your here to just be a troll. You here to push your personal agenda and most likely just to get someone to talk to you.
FYI, I'd never touch the butt-ugly cars like the 911 and GTR that your pushing and if I wanted a track car I'd have a ZR-1. Plus, I really don't care "what other people are buying", sheep-like decision making doesn't work for me.
FYI, I'd never touch the butt-ugly cars like the 911 and GTR that your pushing and if I wanted a track car I'd have a ZR-1. Plus, I really don't care "what other people are buying", sheep-like decision making doesn't work for me.
This thread isn't about what Jay Davis should or should not buy. Buy whatever floats your boat, be it a Camry or a Bugatti. The thread was about the price of the Vantage. That price is very much related to the car itself and every other car out there in the price segment and niche.
#50
12-24-2010, 02:38 PM
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I can talk about the performance because it doesn't take a genius to understand what 380 hp and 3700 lbs will do with a mediocre transmission.
The fact that you drive it on the highway and not the track is even more a reason that it doesn't pack enough punch. Highways are long, sweeping roads where all you really need is grunt. The lack of it in the Vantage would be most apparent here.
I can talk about the performance because it doesn't take a genius to understand what 380 hp and 3700 lbs will do with a mediocre transmission.
The fact that you drive it on the highway and not the track is even more a reason that it doesn't pack enough punch. Highways are long, sweeping roads where all you really need is grunt. The lack of it in the Vantage would be most apparent here.
Doesn't the R8 and V8V share the same Graziano transmission? FWIW, the V8V has the same transmission as the Ferrari, etc. I am very happy with the SS trans. I upgraded the TCU software and it is amazing! I have had many performance cars I overall the package is amazing. Sure, it's not as fast as the R8 but I don't need it to be and it the looks to me are timeless. It's totally reliable and I get more thumbs-up than any car I have had. I felt like a jerk driving a Ferrari as you get strange looks. The AM blends in much better. Honestly, I could care less what others think though as I LOVE this car.
#51
12-24-2010, 03:06 PM
Doesn't the R8 and V8V share the same Graziano transmission? FWIW, the V8V has the same transmission as the Ferrari, etc. I am very happy with the SS trans. I upgraded the TCU software and it is amazing! I have had many performance cars I overall the package is amazing. Sure, it's not as fast as the R8 but I don't need it to be and it the looks to me are timeless. It's totally reliable and I get more thumbs-up than any car I have had. I felt like a jerk driving a Ferrari as you get strange looks. The AM blends in much better. Honestly, I could care less what others think though as I LOVE this car.
#54
12-24-2010, 04:39 PM
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Having tracked my 4.3 Vantage 20 days this last year, I can state that the Vantage can hold its own and keep up with many "supercars" that have superior specs--that includes GTR's, GT3's, various Ferraris, etc. Now I am not saying it is the fastest, yet it is a very respectable car-- the overall feel and performance in a track sitting is excellent. With 2 exceptions I am the only AM on the track and spend a lot of time answering questions regarding the AM from other drivers--while they comment what a great looking car it is. You can spend all the time you like comparing numbers and reading reviews, yet it is the whole experience of driving a car in a variety of conditions that can win you over. If I get truly dedicated to track driving and possibly racing, I will move down to some cheap car that will not make we cry when the inevitable happens and I hit something.
#55
12-24-2010, 04:41 PM
He probably saw that in the same place where they said the styling was dated ("everyone agrees"). Oh wait...in the last comparison with the Vantage and the R8 the Vantage ranked HIGHER in exterior styling. Oops! And that terrible Vantage transmission ranked exactly the same as the R8 one. I'm sure he'll dismiss that since it doesn't agree with him.
Yes the manual transmission is the same in the two cars...except we don't have to deal with the goofy metal gate. The sport shift is a sequential manual whereas the R tronic is an automatic which has been widely panned. How much do you want to bet he has an R tronic in his R8?
Whatever the case, he's a classic troll, so don't waste your time...no matter what he'll come up with something else.
Yes the manual transmission is the same in the two cars...except we don't have to deal with the goofy metal gate. The sport shift is a sequential manual whereas the R tronic is an automatic which has been widely panned. How much do you want to bet he has an R tronic in his R8?
Whatever the case, he's a classic troll, so don't waste your time...no matter what he'll come up with something else.
#56
12-24-2010, 08:55 PM
He probably saw that in the same place where they said the styling was dated ("everyone agrees"). Oh wait...in the last comparison with the Vantage and the R8 the Vantage ranked HIGHER in exterior styling. Oops! And that terrible Vantage transmission ranked exactly the same as the R8 one. I'm sure he'll dismiss that since it doesn't agree with him.
Yes the manual transmission is the same in the two cars...except we don't have to deal with the goofy metal gate. The sport shift is a sequential manual whereas the R tronic is an automatic which has been widely panned. How much do you want to bet he has an R tronic in his R8?
Whatever the case, he's a classic troll, so don't waste your time...no matter what he'll come up with something else.
Yes the manual transmission is the same in the two cars...except we don't have to deal with the goofy metal gate. The sport shift is a sequential manual whereas the R tronic is an automatic which has been widely panned. How much do you want to bet he has an R tronic in his R8?
Whatever the case, he's a classic troll, so don't waste your time...no matter what he'll come up with something else.
https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...e-numbers.html
BTW, getting 3x200ms shift times vs 1.6s of shift time will not improve your 1/4 mile by 1s. Your velocity does not go to zero then back up to X instantly. What will happen is your deceleration period will be shorter and your acceleration period sooner for the next gear. The net effect is not 1:1 with respect to shift time. The delta in velocity for that given period of time is what effects your 1/4 mile time.
As for my gated shifter
Last edited by Pipper6speed; 12-24-2010 at 08:58 PM.
#57
12-24-2010, 10:10 PM
I've read it in several people's reviews, and funny enough, I read it in your thread here where you can't shift your car fast enough and the other owner says it blows too. So I guess the transmission itself is just fine, the problem being that it sucks shifting. Great.
https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...e-numbers.html
BTW, getting 3x200ms shift times vs 1.6s of shift time will not improve your 1/4 mile by 1s. Your velocity does not go to zero then back up to X instantly. What will happen is your deceleration period will be shorter and your acceleration period sooner for the next gear. The net effect is not 1:1 with respect to shift time. The delta in velocity for that given period of time is what effects your 1/4 mile time.
As for my gated shifter
https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...e-numbers.html
BTW, getting 3x200ms shift times vs 1.6s of shift time will not improve your 1/4 mile by 1s. Your velocity does not go to zero then back up to X instantly. What will happen is your deceleration period will be shorter and your acceleration period sooner for the next gear. The net effect is not 1:1 with respect to shift time. The delta in velocity for that given period of time is what effects your 1/4 mile time.
As for my gated shifter
I didn't say the transmission sucks...I said I can't shift it fast enough. That's on me, not the transmission. I've said multiple times in the past that it's probably the best manual transmission I've had, but when milliseconds count I haven't been able to shift it fast enough to make the most of the car. And yes we do have the same transmission.
While it's true that there isn't a 1:1 correlation between time cut out with shifts in an acceleration run measuring distance (but there is with runs of speed), it's probably pretty close for one reason. Yes I am still traveling a certain speed during that flat line so that period of traveling the distance is removed, but I'd be going faster in that period if I was already in the next gear and accelerating which would make up for the difference. I'd have to edit the time vs distance graph to see...or better yet shift faster, but lacking either I simply estimated.
And for the record, as I've said before I'd like to see Aston Martin up the ante and make this car faster...they leave a lot of performance on the table which thankfully the aftermarket has been able to extract. Where else have you seen seen a car add 230 rwhp with supercharger running 7 psi?
Merry Christmas.
Last edited by Tahoe M3; 12-24-2010 at 10:17 PM.
#58
12-25-2010, 02:45 PM
Points:
1. Wedouglas is by definition a troll, goes to a board with no interest other than to inflame.
2. Does not know squat, thinks (read) the Aston transmission is inferior to his R8 but in actuality is the same transmission!
3. Performance delta Vantage 4.7 and R8 V8 is very small, Road and Track shows .1 sec faster for 1/4 mile for the R8, braking and road holding almost identical. Not the huge lack of performance claimed!
4. Resale, wish it was lower for the Vantage as I am in the market for a 09 couple. But if you look at the residuals, a 06 Vantage is selling for right at 50% or retail about what is the norm for a 5year old car .and right where Porsches 997 are selling. Looking at 09s, the R8 is selling for about 1-4% more as based on MSRP. I.E. not much difference in retained value for 2 year old cars.
5. If you really are interested in performance he should sell his R8 and buy a 997.2 TT which blows away even the 10 cylinder R8 in almost every parameter. But maybe he value the look and comfort of the R8 over a Porsche, just as many Aston owners chose the Aston over a Porsche that would provide more performance for the dollar.
1. Wedouglas is by definition a troll, goes to a board with no interest other than to inflame.
2. Does not know squat, thinks (read) the Aston transmission is inferior to his R8 but in actuality is the same transmission!
3. Performance delta Vantage 4.7 and R8 V8 is very small, Road and Track shows .1 sec faster for 1/4 mile for the R8, braking and road holding almost identical. Not the huge lack of performance claimed!
4. Resale, wish it was lower for the Vantage as I am in the market for a 09 couple. But if you look at the residuals, a 06 Vantage is selling for right at 50% or retail about what is the norm for a 5year old car .and right where Porsches 997 are selling. Looking at 09s, the R8 is selling for about 1-4% more as based on MSRP. I.E. not much difference in retained value for 2 year old cars.
5. If you really are interested in performance he should sell his R8 and buy a 997.2 TT which blows away even the 10 cylinder R8 in almost every parameter. But maybe he value the look and comfort of the R8 over a Porsche, just as many Aston owners chose the Aston over a Porsche that would provide more performance for the dollar.
#59
12-25-2010, 02:53 PM
If you look at my Graziano PDF thread I linked directly to the manufacturers website.
Yes the graziano gearbox is shared by the F360, F430, Gallardo, R8, and Vantage (with a few others).
The stock internals are good to about 650 ft lbs of torque. I found out the Heffner twin turbo gallardos are running upgraded internals. heffner provides the stronger gears (most likely steel I would assume).
Two achilles heels on Vantage manual transmission: Oil & Shifter cables.
Two achilles heels on Vantage SS transmission: Oil & TCU software
Depending on which you have, do both mods and the tranny will shift perfectly silky smooth. I've already improved mine by about 90%, but I can now tell that my cables do need some adjustment (they are a bit loose).
Hope that helps clarify
007
________
Vaporizer Review
Yes the graziano gearbox is shared by the F360, F430, Gallardo, R8, and Vantage (with a few others).
The stock internals are good to about 650 ft lbs of torque. I found out the Heffner twin turbo gallardos are running upgraded internals. heffner provides the stronger gears (most likely steel I would assume).
Two achilles heels on Vantage manual transmission: Oil & Shifter cables.
Two achilles heels on Vantage SS transmission: Oil & TCU software
Depending on which you have, do both mods and the tranny will shift perfectly silky smooth. I've already improved mine by about 90%, but I can now tell that my cables do need some adjustment (they are a bit loose).
Hope that helps clarify
007
________
Vaporizer Review
Last edited by 007 Vantage; 08-24-2011 at 11:57 AM.
#60
12-25-2010, 08:12 PM
Very interesting thread. I think the the criticisms are not valid.
If something looks great, why the need to change it?
I don't think "the majority are buying that or doing this" is ever a convincing argument, look at the Congress and the WH the last 25 years.
All of these cars have more performance than will ever be used on US roads.
Imo since Dr. Bez has been leading AM they have had the best looking line-up of any car maker, inside and out. People buy them for the combination of beauty, sound, and performance. Other cars are bought for bragging rights based on differences - fractions of seconds - that are imperceptible. But because the world is the way it is, I do think lower prices will be the burden of owners who buy for more than 0-60. So just enjoy them.
If something looks great, why the need to change it?
I don't think "the majority are buying that or doing this" is ever a convincing argument, look at the Congress and the WH the last 25 years.
All of these cars have more performance than will ever be used on US roads.
Imo since Dr. Bez has been leading AM they have had the best looking line-up of any car maker, inside and out. People buy them for the combination of beauty, sound, and performance. Other cars are bought for bragging rights based on differences - fractions of seconds - that are imperceptible. But because the world is the way it is, I do think lower prices will be the burden of owners who buy for more than 0-60. So just enjoy them.