You are frickin' dreaming (or more correctly, having a nightmare). The people who make Aston Martin are its 'customers', and they would not stomach an MB takeover as you find so "exciting".

And by customers, nobody on this forum fits that category. I'm talking about the movers and shakers behind the scenes, like certain AMOC members and the obscenely rich who kept AM in business through the bad times by buying countless number of absurdly priced cars.

AM keeps these people happy, not us buyers of used Astons or new 'baby' models. They really aren't interested in what we think about what they should be offering for product.

Aston is a boutique brand that exists to satisfy the real customer base and if that means cutting back their production quantities and moving even higher in the price range, that's what they'll do.

The non-customers (e.g., this forum) ***** and moan about the non-competitive pricing of cars like the DBS and Vanquish because their performance doesn't match the performance of similarly priced cars like the 458 or MP4 or Lambo, etc (all true). But the 'real' AM customers don't care one bit, and they scoop these cars up making them very successful for the company.

You will never see Aston at the forefront of performance...because their customers don't care.

 

I'm not really sure how you have decided "WE" on the forum are not Aston MArtin's CUSTOMERS. Not all of us have bought used Aston Martins, nor have we purchased the "baby" models. Many of us have owned more than one Aston MArtin. Some of us own more than one at a time.

Aston Martin is a boutique brand. Just like Zonda is a boutique brand. I think Aston has sold fewer than 40,000 cars in its entire existence. They currently are selling fewer than 4000 cars a year. I believe Ferrari sells more 458's than that a year.

It is precisely because they are a boutique that they will end up having to work with a larger manufacturer to create the next generation of power plant. Most suitors would not work at all, no matter how fantastic their engineering is (Toyota for instance). But I think MB could work. They have a very similar tradition of big GT's with big naturally aspirated engines.

I really doubt MB would use Aston as a Flagship. They have been down that road with Maybach and McLaren and it did not work for them. More than likely there would be a sharing of tech, more like what Zonda is doing. That would work beautifully.

In that scenario Aston would be able to use an existing platform that has all the durability, testing, compliance etc, but still be able to craft an engine that is bespoke to their needs. It would be an Aston Martin Engine, just as the Ford block is now an Aston Martin engine.

Mercedes build some amazing engines. As a base, they could create something truly special.

The other route would be go the McLaren way. Create your own engine. This would mean Aston Martin would have to increase the cost of the cars, and that means they would need even more innovation. Its a tricky game.

 

While there might be some unusual customers on this forum, they are few and far between. And frankly, owning more than one is not what I'm really talking about.

Did anybody here buy a brand new DBS or Vanquish? Maybe, but probably not. And new Vantages don't count because of their position in the AM line up.

The real customers I'm talking about are the people who participate in the AM 'lifestyle' and when a new top of the range model is announced just call up the dealer (or more generally the factory), and order one up to a bespoke trim (or several). WE are not those customers, because those customers don't participate in forums like this.

While AM appreciate having us around to soak up their production (used or new), we are not the true target market and are not the customers to whom AM listen when it comes to laying out a path forward for the company.

So we can complain about how this or that AM model is overpriced/underpowered, but no one really cares what we think about the subject, because the true AM customer doesn't give 2 hoots about those criteria.

Of course, this is all just my opinion of the AM brand.

 

The Sultan types with 50/100/200 Astons in their garages don't participate on forums, but a number of the people on PistonHeads (and the AMOC forum) are serial buyers of new top-of-the-line Astons. For what it's worth, the discussions regarding this topic on those sites are broadly similar to this one.

 

I still don't buy your logic. You seem to know a lot about the people on this board, that I don't.

The One-77 guys are extremely rare, but most of the other cars are also very limited in production and clientele.

Astons just doesn't make a lot of cars, and the ones they do are mid-tier price wise. This is not a brand like Porsche that has huge price disparities between models and audiences. Nor is it a brand like Ferrari or Lamborghini. that have hyper and near hyper cars available in most markets.

Aston sells 4000 cars a year and even at that amount, its no where near enough. The Aston market is small. They sell fewer cars than Bentley and likely at a lower average unit price.

Its doubtful they have enough of a small elite group of customers that buy cars with enough of a margin to build a business around them (beyond the One-77, and that was not even road legal in many places).

Aston's halo cars would have to sell for 500,000 to a million to be profitable enough to sustain that business model. As it is there is only $100k price difference between a V12 Vantage and a Vanquish, whereas the MRSP spread between a Gallardo and an Aventador is twice that.

The reality is, all Aston models are purchased by a very small group of buyers. Half the buyers are estimated to be AMV8 owners (thats twice as many cars as the Gallardo, but half as many as 458). Aston will really have to watch this half of the business when the very excellent F-Type launches. Losing the AMV8 consumer would likely doom the company.

All the V12 models make up the rest. They sell for more money, but the development costs are amortized over fewer vehicles.

To put it in perspective the McLaren dealer in my market sold more cars of a single model than Aston did across all the models.

Aston has been losing sales for the past few years (Bentley and Range Rover are gaining) and they have very tough years ahead, with increasing competition. We as customers have many, many choices, but there aren't many, many Aston Martin buyers.

 

I spent 205K (CAD) buying my 2012 V12V.
I seriously doubt that AM doesn't consider me a customer, I probably wouldn't be allowed to fill out their customer survey forms if that was the case.
As with "all" car companies, the entry level models are extremely important (V8V). The entry level vehicles typically have the highest volume of sales, and these vehicles are also the gateway to bigger & better same brand purchases once some brand loyalty has been established. Based upon this mode of thinking, most manufacturers tend to put greater development money into these entry level models.
Now I may not have spent money on a One-77, but after having owned my V12V I would definitely be looking to aspire towards one.
I would think that is the same feeling of all loyal AM owners (new & used), millionaire or not!

 

I understand what XJRS is saying. Over the years, during various AM financial crises, there are a number of very loyal and very wealthy people who have spent huge sums on various very, very special cars. These people obviously mean a great deal to the company as they have been instrumental to its survival. Some of these people recently contributed to AM's finances by buying the One-77 (or several of them). If their influence (and money) contributes to AM's continuing survival as a maker of truly special, bespoke motorcars -- rather than becoming just another high-tech prestige badge that is someone else's platform and/or engine underneath -- more power to them.

That said, much of these influential people's influence and support of the marque occurred when AM made a small fraction of the number of cars they produce now. Accordingly, the proportion of AM production and revenue that they account for is lower today than it used to be. Unless AM decides to return to the extremely low production figures of pre-Gaydon times, I have to think that we mere mortal buyers of today's cars (I bought my AM new, though it's a "mere" V8V ) have more influence than we may have had in the past.

 

You are right that us mere mortals probably have more influence than before because of the larger numbers of cars being made. But you get what I'm trying to say. That the company's direction is heavily influenced by the buyers of Astons who aren't comparison shopping an Aston against other cars. They may have Ferraris and Lambos, etc., but they buy Astons for what they are, not what they could be.

Aston doesn't need to lure them to the brand with the 'best' of everything, because they want an Aston regardless of those criteria. People on this forum (and similar) keep talking about the need for more performance/power to be competitive, but for the mega customers of Aston, that's a don't care. And they are the real influence on AM directions, not us. That's why you'll never see Aston as some halo brand of MB, or use MB engines in their cars.

When the time comes to replace the current engine lineup, some unnamed individual will step up with money to help fund a new or derivative motor, just as someone funded the DB7 Zagato.

 

If that world ever existed, it no longer exists. Every brand has a core group of fanatics, but blind brand loyalty is rare and increasingly fleeting.

Astons products are not expensive enough to live off a small group of fanatics. The world has moved well past where Aston had been before. What used to be obscenely priced is now mid-tier. And Aston really does not play in the hyper car price point. The One-77 is not a real "car" as it is not even legal in many markets. Unlike Ferrari, Lamborghini, McLaren and Rolls Royce models etc.

No car can be the best at everything, but they do have to be the BEST IN CLASS. As its rivals push the technological boundaries forward, Aston will have to address it in the Aston way, or they will be left behind. Cars like the new F12, FF and at the lower priced Bentley Supersport are very real rivals to the Vanquish.

When a brand believes that it does not have to be Best in Class because a group of people will just LOVE and desire it, they are in a very dangerous position. They are taking their appeal and their customers for granted.

I bought a V12 Vantage, at the same time I also owned an R8 V10. I could have bought a DBS and saved some money, but I didn't. Aston should be asking why does a guy who loves the brand buy yet another car instead of our high margin halo car?

I bought the R8 V10 because I wanted a more modern car experience as well. Plus I'm not over 50 yrs old (the age of the buyer is also an issue). That forced me to downsize my Aston purchase. Plus I also have a Range Rover (i now have two) so a bigger GT was not really needed.

I'm guessing more of the people who hold the fate of Astons future are guys like me.

Unless they move even further upmarket and heavily invest in some real technology. But being more expensive than a similar Ferrari or Rolls is going to really put pressure on R&D.

It's important to remember almost all if Astons competitors are owned by deep pocketed companies and have the ability to share R&D knowledge, costs and platforms.

 

You dont need anything else once you have a Range Rover and an Aston. +1. Never mind the Fezzas and Lambos, that's living the dream Penguin

FF

 

Really hope XJRS is correct in that some uber-wealthy AM-owner/protector of the AM brand will come save the day and keep AM independent from car giants like MB.

But I fear the worst....after all, no uber-wealthy AM-owner stepped in to fend off Ford back in the day.

 

Didn't AM benefit immensely from Fords ownership?

 

Not disputing that; without Ford, AM probably wouldn't be around today.

Just pointing out that the so-called uber-wealthy owners that dictate the brand and would supposedly pony-up the cash to develop a new AM engine weren't around to save the day back when Ford stepped in. That said, I don't think we can count on them to prevent MB engines from making their way into our cars.

But who knows, maybe feding off a Ford acquisition isn't the same as fending off the use of MB engines.

 

Thanks FatFrank. The point was not to show off, it was to highlight the kinds of decisions buyers make.

There are quite a few Aston owners on here that have at least one or two other exotics or near exotics. My dealer says a fair number of the DBS guys already have a Ferrari and a Range Rover at home. That's likely why they became a Lamborghini dealer.

My point was, even for those that love the brand, Aston has to stay on its game. It is constantly being compared and contrasted with the competition. Often right in the driveways of its customers.

And increasingly its competitors are making cars that directly compete with Aston. The FF, F12, California, Bentely Supersport, even the upcoming Lamborghini SUV and the very excellent new Range Rovers could all be possible GT candidates

Even in my house my Aston is getting squeezed by two very competent Range Rovers, the subway (to work) and my weekend track car. I just don't have time to drive it anymore. And that has me thinking I don't really need it, or if I'm only going to drive it once a week, perhaps I should get a less forgiving car.

And then I come to my senses

 

Damn!! Had me reaching for the PM button!