I can't think of a worse outcome than for Aston to become yet another part of the VW Group -- the biggest platform-sharer of any car company. AM would become just another VW Group car with VW Group platforms and engines.

What is "true to their roots" about Bentleys with VW platforms and VW/Audi engines and drivelines? The R8 is a Gallardo (good for Audi, perhaps, but bad for Lamborghini), and the next R8/Gallardo are being developed jointly -- they'll be even more the same than they are currently. The Q7/Cayenne/Tauareg are the same vehicle, and for the next one (and I do mean one) we have to add a Bentley SUV and the Lambo SUV -- they'll all be built on the same platform. The Q5 is being "rebodied" into another Porsche SUV.

All of VW Group's future plans call for ever more sharing of major components across as many brands as possible. This would be the WORST POSSIBLE FATE for Aston Martin.

 

^^^^ this.

 

Some ppl are not understanding this correctly..VW will not be BUYING Aston Martin, here's little Wiki copy for everyone

In March 2007, a consortium of investors led by http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prodrive boss David Richards purchased 90% of Aston Martin for £479 million, with Ford retaining a £40 million stake. In December 2012, the Italian private equity fund Investindustrial signed a deal to buy 37.5% of Aston Martin, investing £150 million as a capital increase.

So that being said, if Invertindustrial sells there funds to VW like they did with Ducati..this will only be 37.5%, sure Prodrive doesn't own 90% percentage anymore, but they hold a lot more than 37.5%...where as Bentley is OWNED by AG VW, which is why you see a large precentage of VW parts tossed into the pile...if VW buys out Prodrive then thats a whole different story...Lambo already uses the Graziano trans and it does well for them..compared to us at least, which are clutchs last average 24,000km in city...

Sry but some ppl are looking at this with there cups half empty and not understanding the whole picture. If Aston Martin doesn't pair up with a AG, doesn't matter who buys in..you won't be buying an Aston Martin cause it will seize to exsist..aka Fiskers future..Aston Martin see's this future and is preparing now rather then when they are 6-feet-under..so better yet Aston has to pair up to servive another Century..that is the known


....so who do you believe a good AG companion is??

 

I understand it. Investindustrial's ownership of "only" 37.5% does not in any way preclude the possibility that 1) other owners wouldn't sell their stakes (which you acknowledged) or 2) that a "deal" couldn't be done that involves VW Group components/platforms/engines/whatever even without a full takeover.

Mine is not a glass-half-empty perspective, but rather a concern that is (sadly) very well-supported by history. My post above was in response to Mario's -- and your -- support of VW Group (rather than M-B) gaining significant control or influence over AM. Bentley Continentals are based on VW platforms and use VW/Audi engines. R-R Ghost -- 7 series-based platform and engine. Lamborghini -- more and more major component sharing is occurring -- Gallardo/R8 (now and the next one), Urus/Bentley SUV/Cayenne/Q7/Touareg -- all the same platform. There is NOTHING that gives one reason to believe that VW Group wouldn't build AMs based on shared VW Group platforms with shared VW Group engines if given the opportunity.

If you look at my (many) posts on this topic, you'll see that I believe AM does need a "partner" of some kind. Ideally, IMO, a partner that would do what Ford did for them with the Vanquish and VH cars -- fund AM and let them engineer and produce desirable, interesting and unique cars. I don't want to see an "Aston Martin" with a VW/Audi/M-B/whatever platform or engine (regardless of whether AM is "owned" by another firm or what the precise relationship is). BTW, see my earlier posts for my view on what constitutes an "AM engine" (hint -- the current engines qualify).

BTW, what makes you think that Lambo's paddle 'box clutches last longer than AM's? That's certainly not what I've heard.

 

What makes a Lambo clutch last longer..I have no clue, but working on them is proof to me that they last longer then a Aston V8 clutch..6 speed Graziano trans clutchs are all prone to a ealry clutch life when compared to say a Mustang..etc..not just american but anything that could reach +80,000km with 400+ HP on the same original 1st clutch life that is single plated..needless I'm going off topic with this.

Bentley went off and lost there own true values to there own brand back in the day..which is what killed them. Bentley was true into racing, but you wouldn't really believe this looking at there end of there own era vehicles. Now look at the brand, getting back to there image..racing and luxury, which is British. (talking about after WW1)

Ford didn't stand back from Aston, Ford and Aston where at battle every day.. but Ford funding is the reason we have the the VH platform. Aston had only enough funding from Ford to design a multi platform..aka the VH was born.. V8 Jag engine, electronics such as modules, sensors, wiring, infotainment were also signed to Aston from Ford...As of 2015, if Aston does not pair up and get a companion like Ford(deap pockets) back in the day..that is when you can expect to see a complete sell out and take over of Aston..right now Aston is limping along on what was given by Ford

Sure Aston can do this on there own till 2015..but when that Ford contract ends on the engine's...Only Aston and Ford know the minor deals as to what else Aston will lose the rights to.. when Ford sold off Aston, Aston lost rights to stuff like front heated windscreen, since the sell off no Aston was fitted with a heated front screens..300,000$ and no heated front screen, could care less cause it's just a heated front screen, but it is the little things like this that ppl will always compare, it is a luxury vehicle, not a entry compact..there were also other things Aston lost in the diagnostic field too, just as clients you don't see this.


Aston general just needs to pair up with another brand to help build there engines and supply electronics. I'm sure the only reason Aston was looking into Benz was due to the Benz and McLaren contract coming to an end in 2015 as well. McLaren has the cash to build and engineering to design there own engines now, so I highly doubt another Benz contract will be signed with McLaren...the McLaren plant is loaded with ex-Aston employee's. For all you know, the 2015 onward Astons might be fitted with a McLaren built/supplied engine to Astons needs..at this point it's to early to decide, all ppl can do is throw around these ideas till 2015

 

Well said irish07 I couldn't agree more, Aston need to be linked to a company with deep pockets to survive. Any link to Merc would only cheapen the brand!

@Speedraser I understand how you may feel about the platform sharing across the VW group. But I can safely say that you'll be pleasantly surprised by the next generation of Bentleys. VW is fully aware that Bentley hasn't been built on proper platforms which hurt the proportions. That is now a thing of the past! The reason I can safely say this is because I've worked for both Bentley and Audi on the design side of things so I'm aware of what's to come in the next (4-5) years. Trust me when I tell you that VW would be a great home for Aston. Google Porsche-Bentley MSB lightweight platform so you can see what I'm talking about. Again this is all hypothetical talk for my end, having been In the industry for quite some time it's just my opinion

 

I agree. I also think that any link to VW Group would only cheapen the brand.

It may well be that the current shared-platform Bentleys are more obviously compromised than the next generation will be. But it's exactly the notion of the "Porsche-Bentley MSB" platform that inherently results in less distinctive cars -- they will be, by definition, very similar -- too similar -- in too many critical ways. I don't want it to become the "Porsche-Bentley-Aston MSB" platform! Especially as it would involve shared engines also. ZERO interest in such an "Aston" from me.

I'd have a VH-platform Aston over an MSB-Aston every time, today, tomorrow, in 5 years and in 20 years.

 

@Speedraser, I agree the VH platform is a work of art! And I rather see Astons ride on it than any other platform if possible, I believe the VH can be updated for years to come with proper funding. All I'm saying is if Aston does indeed enter into a partnership with Merc it'll only be a matter of time before Astons are built on bull **** SL or SLS platforms. Astons have beautiful proportions and that's one of the many reasons why we own them and people stop and take notice when one drives by. That would all go away with a tieup with that poor excuse for a car company that is Diamler.

 

Mario,

I agree -- I've posted many times that I 'd have zero interest in an Aston that is a Benz under the skin, or one with a Benz engine dropped in (rather than completely re-engineered like the V8V engine is vs the Jaguar engine). I would have the same level of interest -- zero -- in an Aston that is based on VW Group components.

I'm curious (especially given your connection to VW Group) -- why do you hate Daimler?

 

The VH platform will not go away in replace of a SL or SLS chassis..or even a VW chassis. The only chassis Aston was interested into looking for is the SUV market. At this present time Aston has no SUV chassis. They can use the VH chassis and build a SUV, but it is not made to support large upright weight.. this would cost $$$ to make things happen on a VH platform, versus taking and benz and VW chassis that is already set for a SUV style vehicle to bring back Lagonda.

 

Speedraser, my dislike of Benz is based on their shady business practice, they are a ruthless company. I'm not a Chrysler fan by any means, but what they did to that company is despicable, I don't know how any of them didn't end up in jail over it.

 

Speedraser, on a personal note, I admire you passion for the Aston Martin brand, it let's me know I'm in good company on this forum

 

Cheers