- The Official Stock Wheel & Tire Weight Thread -
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From: NoVa
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I've topped out 4th gear a time or two lol...
While many people might not notice a few pounds here and there, some of us do continue to modify our cars over time. So while one change might not make a big difference, over time the cumulative modifications will add up to an overall better performing car. A pound here, a few there, it adds up.
Holds true with dropping weight with a lighter hood, trunk, exhaust, seats, wheels, brake rotors, pulling out floor mats, the trunk divider, etc... There's no one magic answer, but there are a lot of small steps to get closer. Of course, everything comes with a trade-off.
While many people might not notice a few pounds here and there, some of us do continue to modify our cars over time. So while one change might not make a big difference, over time the cumulative modifications will add up to an overall better performing car. A pound here, a few there, it adds up.
Holds true with dropping weight with a lighter hood, trunk, exhaust, seats, wheels, brake rotors, pulling out floor mats, the trunk divider, etc... There's no one magic answer, but there are a lot of small steps to get closer. Of course, everything comes with a trade-off.
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From: saratoga
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Acceleration in gears 1st - 3rd are by far the most important are they not?? 
. Lol.
I don't know how many people go WOT in 4th on the street, you are well into triple digits at that point. Yes obviously as gears get higher the effect is less, but for around the street it makes the most difference as the first 3 gears are the ones most of us have the most fun in which is why IMO they are the most important ones to focus on.
Vergis, XW is actually right that rubber does in fact weight more than aluminum based on volume, with that said its important not to neglect the wheel weight as well. They are ALL important. By carefully planning your modding plan you can find an all encompassing solution like I did trying to save as much weight as humanly possible with every component you replace. Remember, I removed 8 pounds while massively increasing the widths of my wheel & tire combo without event touching the brakes yet. A full 2-piece Brembo brake kit will save roughly another 36lbs!! However, that weight reduction does come at a smaller radius so it's impact is slightly less, but the mass reduction is far greater so it will still make a noticeable improvement in handling, braking, steering response and feedback. Bumps will be much softer still allowing you to then compensate by going with a more aggressive spring setup with no negative ride quality compared to stock.
My main purpose of this thread was to illustrate the point how important it is to plan ahead when doing mods and not just doing it haphazardly (which most tend to do). Depending on how long I keep the car I will probably end up doing rotors as well for a maximum effect.
Wi regards to rotating mass, the same is true for crank pulleys and lightweight flywheels, they always have the greatest impact in 1st - 3rd gears (the most relevant for city driving). But I am getting ahead of myself ... In due time.
. Lol. I don't know how many people go WOT in 4th on the street, you are well into triple digits at that point. Yes obviously as gears get higher the effect is less, but for around the street it makes the most difference as the first 3 gears are the ones most of us have the most fun in which is why IMO they are the most important ones to focus on.
Vergis, XW is actually right that rubber does in fact weight more than aluminum based on volume, with that said its important not to neglect the wheel weight as well. They are ALL important. By carefully planning your modding plan you can find an all encompassing solution like I did trying to save as much weight as humanly possible with every component you replace. Remember, I removed 8 pounds while massively increasing the widths of my wheel & tire combo without event touching the brakes yet. A full 2-piece Brembo brake kit will save roughly another 36lbs!! However, that weight reduction does come at a smaller radius so it's impact is slightly less, but the mass reduction is far greater so it will still make a noticeable improvement in handling, braking, steering response and feedback. Bumps will be much softer still allowing you to then compensate by going with a more aggressive spring setup with no negative ride quality compared to stock.
My main purpose of this thread was to illustrate the point how important it is to plan ahead when doing mods and not just doing it haphazardly (which most tend to do). Depending on how long I keep the car I will probably end up doing rotors as well for a maximum effect.
Wi regards to rotating mass, the same is true for crank pulleys and lightweight flywheels, they always have the greatest impact in 1st - 3rd gears (the most relevant for city driving). But I am getting ahead of myself
... In due time.Yes, getting that weight out of that rotor is a big deal , because if its 8lbs per rotor, even if its only 1.2x or 1.3x that of which could be inthe car, thats still 10lbs per corner, and 40lbs over all. 40lbs in most cases is like picking up a free 4hp, and that 4hp is available from start to finish of any drag race!
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From: saratoga
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Just to throw in another thought.
How many of us have filled the tank and noticed the car feeling sluggish straight after? Yet that is maybe 60 pounds of additional weight added in 5 minutes. It was when I realised that my personal butt dyno didn't notice a 60 pound difference, that I stopped thinking about spending a few thousand on weight saving changes.
On the track its all measurable, but on the road what really matters is how much extra pleasure you get out of any changes you make to the car, and apart from the satisfaction of knowing you've made a difference, I'm not convinced that the car will feel any different with the weight reductions being discussed here.
How many of us have filled the tank and noticed the car feeling sluggish straight after? Yet that is maybe 60 pounds of additional weight added in 5 minutes. It was when I realised that my personal butt dyno didn't notice a 60 pound difference, that I stopped thinking about spending a few thousand on weight saving changes.
On the track its all measurable, but on the road what really matters is how much extra pleasure you get out of any changes you make to the car, and apart from the satisfaction of knowing you've made a difference, I'm not convinced that the car will feel any different with the weight reductions being discussed here.
) ive also done tests with students as far as removing weight or adding weight and asked them what felt different. sometimes with the spare removed or something, they said the car felt heavier. trust me, its way to minor to tell, if you are running with 60lbs or not.
now, unsprung weight is different, as long as we agree that the weight on the tires is worth 1.4 as it was in the car only as far as acceleration goes. it will make the sterring feel more crisp and on tight tracks, the suspension will work better. we are talking tracks here though. im still amazed if anyone can push their car hard enough on the street to reallly feel the difference . I would bet a HUGE dinner that i could mix and match heavy vs light wheels and tires and no one could feel the difference in a double blind test on the street.
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From: saratoga
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With body weight you are 100% correct, that's why I don't waste a dime on body weight reduction, it honestly does next to nothing. Rotating Unsprung mass though is a completely different world compared to body mass. Apples vs. oranges. Once you try it you will be hooked. Wheels/tires/brake rotors are the first things I usually modify on cars now to maximize performance because they literally affect everything (handling, ride quality, grip, steering response, acceleration, braking, on and on).
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There have been many different wheel options within the Vantage line, it would be very interesting to know if there is any substantial weight differences between the options.
I am thinking the 20 spoke 'mesh' design must be a boat anchor...
I am thinking the 20 spoke 'mesh' design must be a boat anchor...
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From: saratoga
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Absolutely! what kills the truth here, are the constant testimonials of the anecdotal evidence and mis calculations of math/physics that show that there are gains to be had. unfortunately, there is little or nothing that can be felt on a street car, let a lone a race car by saving 5 lbs a corner on wheels and tires.
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From: Berlin
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Very interesting discussion. I just wanted to pick-up the topic of the thread and ask you: are Semi Slicks such as the Michelin Sport Cup 2 heavier than normal Michelin/Pirelli tires (Michelin Super Sport or PZero). And if choosing the Sport Cup 2 for our Aston, how much difference is there still to the standard Bridgestone.
The reason why I am asking is that i need a new pair of tires for my V8 Vantage S and I am thinking to change to sportier and lighter tires. The car is only used on sunny weather conditions and regularly on track days during the year.
Best regards,
Maximilian
The reason why I am asking is that i need a new pair of tires for my V8 Vantage S and I am thinking to change to sportier and lighter tires. The car is only used on sunny weather conditions and regularly on track days during the year.
Best regards,
Maximilian
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From: pluto
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Last year I was caught on the road in some heavy rain and thunderstorm conditions with not much tread remaining, but I was surprised at how drivable the Cup2's were in those conditions - I had no problem at the speed limit.
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