No airbox = more power
#16
This is the same route I'd go, but I'm worried about water induction. I drive my car in the rain (like... today lol) so having that little bit of extra protection is worthwhile for me.
#17
I believe this mod by itself has no effect on the power produced by the engine. If removing the air boxes gained 5 or 10 hp don't you think Aston Martin would do so? They went to a lot of trouble to design the existing system because that provided the best compromise of cold air and prevention of water into the intakes. Now, if modifications are made to the engine that requires more fuel, more power, etc then an argument can be made that the stock air boxes and grill intake system is insufficient and needs to be modified. (My 2 cents).
#18
Aston did leave HP on the table and desperately went and got it once their their small V8 ( what a beauty it is) was put into daily use.
If I understand correctly, the retrofit was $5000 US for 10bhp by putting valves in the boxes that open at 4500 rpm (in the rain). (ok - pour some high octane in it and the $5g knows how to use it).
In my experience OEM induction systems are engineered around sound reduction as a high priority.
The universe offers this at nearly $600 US. Holy crap!
From what we see the fender liner is an excellent piece and the system is nearly boxed on it's own. We plan to partially shroud the filter on the inboard side.
The big thing for me is dry filters. They are good for 100k miles and easy to maintain. I cannot stand and do not trust oiling filters which is silly I know. David Vizard made a great case for them.
If I get the chance to run it on the track in the rain I will not hesitate. I am replacing the entire exhaust system and the OEM boxes have proven to be restrictive like most OEM induction systems I have seen. Astons valve solution is not something I would ever spend money on when I can just remove the box and get on with it. The next guy can re-install - with any luck I will be dead.
Noise - meh
Water - meh
Cold Air - yea
Dry Filter - yea
Better flow above 5000 - that's where it runs.
I built this for daily driving in the rain. It's a 4cyl running 5:13's
I got the rest of the snorkel out
chr
If I understand correctly, the retrofit was $5000 US for 10bhp by putting valves in the boxes that open at 4500 rpm (in the rain). (ok - pour some high octane in it and the $5g knows how to use it).
In my experience OEM induction systems are engineered around sound reduction as a high priority.
The universe offers this at nearly $600 US. Holy crap!
From what we see the fender liner is an excellent piece and the system is nearly boxed on it's own. We plan to partially shroud the filter on the inboard side.
The big thing for me is dry filters. They are good for 100k miles and easy to maintain. I cannot stand and do not trust oiling filters which is silly I know. David Vizard made a great case for them.
If I get the chance to run it on the track in the rain I will not hesitate. I am replacing the entire exhaust system and the OEM boxes have proven to be restrictive like most OEM induction systems I have seen. Astons valve solution is not something I would ever spend money on when I can just remove the box and get on with it. The next guy can re-install - with any luck I will be dead.
Noise - meh
Water - meh
Cold Air - yea
Dry Filter - yea
Better flow above 5000 - that's where it runs.
I built this for daily driving in the rain. It's a 4cyl running 5:13's
I got the rest of the snorkel out
chr
#19
Seeking the cool air
embdenb, Aston Martin implemented this very system on their Vantage GT4 race cars. All the pre air box tubing, as well as the air boxes themselves, were not employed. Cool air supply was ensured by cutting stylized holes in the bumper fascia directly in front of the filters. Stuart, did the team you sponsored use this design?
You are right , AM did a good job of accommodating water ingestion, they even included three drains in the OE hardware, with clever one way floats to let water out, but not in. Telum is going to keep the tubing for the water safety it provides...I do not think I need it, cause I will make accommodations and I want to hear some induction noise even more than OE water ingestion safety.
I plan to coax cool intake air through the hole left when the tubing is removed from its route to the air box in the OE design. You can see my potential access route by looking through the outboard ends of the lower grill of a Vantage. A bit of aluminum fabrication will be required. (Easy to write, not so easy to do.)
You are right , AM did a good job of accommodating water ingestion, they even included three drains in the OE hardware, with clever one way floats to let water out, but not in. Telum is going to keep the tubing for the water safety it provides...I do not think I need it, cause I will make accommodations and I want to hear some induction noise even more than OE water ingestion safety.
I plan to coax cool intake air through the hole left when the tubing is removed from its route to the air box in the OE design. You can see my potential access route by looking through the outboard ends of the lower grill of a Vantage. A bit of aluminum fabrication will be required. (Easy to write, not so easy to do.)
#20
Aston did leave HP on the table and desperately went and got it once their their small V8 ( what a beauty it is) was put into daily use.
If I understand correctly, the retrofit was $5000 US for 10bhp by putting valves in the boxes that open at 4500 rpm (in the rain). (ok - pour some high octane in it and the $5g knows how to use it).
In my experience OEM induction systems are engineered around sound reduction as a high priority.
The universe offers this at nearly $600 US. Holy crap!
If I understand correctly, the retrofit was $5000 US for 10bhp by putting valves in the boxes that open at 4500 rpm (in the rain). (ok - pour some high octane in it and the $5g knows how to use it).
In my experience OEM induction systems are engineered around sound reduction as a high priority.
The universe offers this at nearly $600 US. Holy crap!
I believe the HP gained were more that just a modification of the air boxes. RedPants I believe had this done. If I remember correctly it included a new intake manifold, the vacuum opening of the air boxes and a revised ECU mapping.
#21
Sound is a huge thing that engineers focus on with intake boxes. I'm also not a fan of oiled filters. My car had K&N filters on it when I bought it, and I went back to stock. Also had some bad MAFs (accompanied by error codes)... purely speculation but I wouldn't be surprised if the oil was a culprit. Here's an old vs new pic:
And here's an overview showing the entire intake system:
And here's an overview showing the entire intake system:
#22
What did you do with the vacuum hoses and controller that all connect to the air boxes once you removed the boxes?
#23
10 Hp => ECU coded to actuate an electronically controlled vacum valve added to the intake manifold - used to open/close vacum actuated flaps, added to the air boxes
10 hp => ECU coded to recognize 100 RON fuel (95 US) and advance timing
Without higher octane fuel, the 2nd 10 HP cannot be realized.
Redpants => Rich don't know what you are running for fuel, but if you have not heard of it, search out "Race Gas." We've been running it a couple of years now. It is a true octane booster and is very convenient for track use. Cool yours is coded that way.
chr
#24
The Power Pack is hard to justify unless you insist on sticking with OEM modifications. The same gains can be made with aftermarket options - an exhaust and tune. A compromise for removing the airboxes would be to drill holes in them to open them up without removing any of the ducting or anything else. That's a permanent change, of course, but it's an option. My car had them when I first bought it. I sent them to another forum member a while back, but there are pics still floating around somewhere.
I'm thinking about adding K&N air filters to my website. I do have access to them, so that's easy. It's just that I tend to stick with things I personally stand behind. And since I personally don't like oiled filters, it's hard for me to sell them... Not the best way to do business but, that's how I roll.
I only use 93 octane in my car, and don't use additives. I try to keep everything as plug-and-play as possible, without having to constantly check things. If I did, I can pretty much guarantee that I'd forget to top up the additives. Same goes with actual race gas (like 100 octane). I don't have the energy or space to stock up on it or go out of my way for it. I've got a buddy that keeps drums of 100 octane at his shop because he uses it in his UGR Gallardo, but that's just too much headache for me on a regular basis.
The other reason why AMR uses the airbox deletes is that the ducting is removed from the front of the cars. Some of the cars have lightweight front bumper beams, and those don't allow the use of the original center-inlet intake ducting behind the grille (in fact, they don't allow use of the grille, either). Without that ducting, the airboxes don't get enough air, so they dropped the boxes. All in all, a nice 25 lb weight savings from the nose of the car! (Yes, it's on my list of things to do to my car, too lol... eventually).
I'm thinking about adding K&N air filters to my website. I do have access to them, so that's easy. It's just that I tend to stick with things I personally stand behind. And since I personally don't like oiled filters, it's hard for me to sell them... Not the best way to do business but, that's how I roll.
I only use 93 octane in my car, and don't use additives. I try to keep everything as plug-and-play as possible, without having to constantly check things. If I did, I can pretty much guarantee that I'd forget to top up the additives. Same goes with actual race gas (like 100 octane). I don't have the energy or space to stock up on it or go out of my way for it. I've got a buddy that keeps drums of 100 octane at his shop because he uses it in his UGR Gallardo, but that's just too much headache for me on a regular basis.
The other reason why AMR uses the airbox deletes is that the ducting is removed from the front of the cars. Some of the cars have lightweight front bumper beams, and those don't allow the use of the original center-inlet intake ducting behind the grille (in fact, they don't allow use of the grille, either). Without that ducting, the airboxes don't get enough air, so they dropped the boxes. All in all, a nice 25 lb weight savings from the nose of the car! (Yes, it's on my list of things to do to my car, too lol... eventually).
#25
Looks great! What did you do with the vacuum hoses and controller? Does it throw any codes? Also interested in your thoughts on any noticeable changes like sound.
#26
I really think it'snt a good idea with water, mud ...
On the system that I am developing, I absolutely want to avoid water.
But I'm glad to see your tests, especially under a heavy rain, but be careful please
On the system that I am developing, I absolutely want to avoid water.
But I'm glad to see your tests, especially under a heavy rain, but be careful please
#27
There are two points of concern I can identify; Water ingress (very bad thing) and disturbance to Mass Airflow sensors leading to false readings at sensitive conditions such as idle, which might cause the engine to stall. As far as additional airflow is concerned, the EMS will re-adapt to the new condition so this is not a concern.
Re water ingress, when we fit the foam filters we use shielding to prevent from this worry. The sign-off for me that this modification was / is robust was the 2006 Nurburgring 24 hour race - EXTREMELY wet, the cars could have towed water skiers..! Re error state airflow readings - I have never encountered this condition, but I mention it here as it would be a concern that springs to mind.
Personally, I would never recommend the air filter upgrade in isolation. I really like a 'joined-up' series of measures to produce an end result of real value. What I mean here is a benefit in terms of both vehicle acceleration times and drivers perception of performance increase which comes from another attribute, such as sound.
So, instead of AM power upgrade at £2k, which is 10BHP on 97 Octane, only delivering the full 20 BHP when using 100 Octane fuel, with no 'sound' increase as the kit doesn't include an exhaust.. I would recommend a more joined-up measure - Sports exhaust system (silencer, sports catalysts and the icing on the cake, more optimum exhaust manifold), together with GT4 style air filter system.
..........................................
Mike
Re water ingress, when we fit the foam filters we use shielding to prevent from this worry. The sign-off for me that this modification was / is robust was the 2006 Nurburgring 24 hour race - EXTREMELY wet, the cars could have towed water skiers..! Re error state airflow readings - I have never encountered this condition, but I mention it here as it would be a concern that springs to mind.
Personally, I would never recommend the air filter upgrade in isolation. I really like a 'joined-up' series of measures to produce an end result of real value. What I mean here is a benefit in terms of both vehicle acceleration times and drivers perception of performance increase which comes from another attribute, such as sound.
So, instead of AM power upgrade at £2k, which is 10BHP on 97 Octane, only delivering the full 20 BHP when using 100 Octane fuel, with no 'sound' increase as the kit doesn't include an exhaust.. I would recommend a more joined-up measure - Sports exhaust system (silencer, sports catalysts and the icing on the cake, more optimum exhaust manifold), together with GT4 style air filter system.
..........................................
Mike
chr
#28
Just food for thought for the conversation!
#29
.............
The AM power upgrade is an airbox kit which reduces induction system losses, and is worth approx. 10BHP. Together with ignition maps optimised for 100 Octane super green fuel, and is also worth approx. 10BHP.
So, if you run 100 Octane then + 20BHP if 97 or 95 then only + 10BHP
K+N air filters, above the AM airbox update will return very little additional gain. The better modification onward from AM power pack airbox would be to remove the air induction system altogether and fit air filters similar to N24 / GT4 race cars.
........
Mike
The AM power upgrade is an airbox kit which reduces induction system losses, and is worth approx. 10BHP. Together with ignition maps optimised for 100 Octane super green fuel, and is also worth approx. 10BHP.
So, if you run 100 Octane then + 20BHP if 97 or 95 then only + 10BHP
K+N air filters, above the AM airbox update will return very little additional gain. The better modification onward from AM power pack airbox would be to remove the air induction system altogether and fit air filters similar to N24 / GT4 race cars.
........
Mike
chr
#30
wont removing the snorkels and boxes make the filter suck in warm or hot air?
The placement of the intake was not IMO a ram air initiative but rather a place to find a cooler air on the intake? I may be incorrect.
we all know hot air in the intake will reduce performance, again difficult to feel in day to day driving
The placement of the intake was not IMO a ram air initiative but rather a place to find a cooler air on the intake? I may be incorrect.
we all know hot air in the intake will reduce performance, again difficult to feel in day to day driving
The old "Hot air injection" scam of cone filters.
Yeah the career engineers at Aston Martin were probably sleeping at the switch when they designed the intake system.
Cooter McGee and his cone filters is where its at