Bang and Olufsen
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From: pluto
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Whew... I needed a nap after reading that.
A lot of fancy audiophile lingo, and I'm not sure I want my car audio to "attack" me, either.
In the end, I have only one thing (the same thing) to say: it's a car, not a living room, so enough already.
A lot of fancy audiophile lingo, and I'm not sure I want my car audio to "attack" me, either.
In the end, I have only one thing (the same thing) to say: it's a car, not a living room, so enough already.
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Joined: Mar 2013
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From: UK
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I had the premium in my 2007 Vantage. The sound quality was good for me. Until I bought my 2016 Vantage GT, with B&O stereo. Would I have ordered my GT with the B&O stereo for $ 8000? Probably not. However I must say I am glad that I have the B&O stereo. I am not a hug audiophile, but the sound quality is fantastic.
Ron
Ron
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From: UK
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Do you have something constructive to add other than devaluing my contribution in such a dismissive manner?
I am still looking for a Vantage - 2009-2012. Leaning towards an "S".
I had the premium in my 2007 Vantage. The sound quality was good for me. Until I bought my 2016 Vantage GT, with B&O stereo. Would I have ordered my GT with the B&O stereo for $ 8000? Probably not. However I must say I am glad that I have the B&O stereo. I am not a hug audiophile, but the sound quality is fantastic.
Ron
Ron
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From: pluto
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I put it to you that it is you who are tone deaf: don't whine about being devalued in a dismissive manner so soon after delivering your own disrespectful comments.
You then proceeded with a lengthy dissertation which, to me, appeared to have two objectives: to tell all of us that the OEM systems in our cars are garbage, and to make sure that we were all shocked and awed by your expertise, neither of which were particularly "constructive".
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You started off your "contribution", as you put it, by insulting everyone who had already replied to this post by calling them tone deaf.
I put it to you that it is you who are tone deaf: don't whine about being devalued in a dismissive manner so soon after delivering your own disrespectful comments.
You then proceeded with a lengthy dissertation which, to me, appeared to have two objectives: to tell all of us that the OEM systems in our cars are garbage, and to make sure that we were all shocked and awed by your expertise, neither of which were particularly "constructive".
I put it to you that it is you who are tone deaf: don't whine about being devalued in a dismissive manner so soon after delivering your own disrespectful comments.
You then proceeded with a lengthy dissertation which, to me, appeared to have two objectives: to tell all of us that the OEM systems in our cars are garbage, and to make sure that we were all shocked and awed by your expertise, neither of which were particularly "constructive".
The following information was factual and accurate. If you take offence at this, then that is unfortunate.
There are many people out there, me included, who aspire to improve their cars. Both aesthetically, and functionally. Understanding the flaws is the first step in deciding what is achievable and what is not. And more importantly, where to spend those hard earned dollars to get the most benefit.
This is my hobby, and I think sharing what I can is a good thing and I have zero interest in creating a combative thread.
On that note, if you feel that my contributions are disingenuous, then I'll leave some information I've posted earlier for those that have an interest and leave you guys to it.
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/...f=70&t=1645866
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=1260557
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=1635220
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Joined: Apr 2017
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From: 07302
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I suspect you're all tone deaf.... 
There isn't a good sounding stereo in an AML car. There are a number of aspects that you judge in a car HiFi, Tonal Accuracy & Spectral Balance, Sound Stage, Imaging, Linearity and Noise. I think they have a reasonable noise floor.
1 out of 6. Brill.
The standard 160w audio does the job of making some sound but has a huge mid bass hole and no attack.
Premium system built by Alpine and sounds OK but still suffers from the mid bass hole and lack of attack. It does however, have some spectral balance and tonal accuracy. That's because the tweeters are smooth and the tweeter and 4" blend well together. No driver bigger than the 4" before the sub takes over is the cause of the lack of mid punch. Having an equaliser helps tune the sound.
B&O has better frequency response than the others but the sound is deeply flawed with awful sounding highs and the imagery is the worst I've experienced in some time.
Let me explain myself as best as I can for you. To get a sound that mimics a live performance, you need to be able to recreate the frequencies and energy that such a sound requires. This means you need speakers/drivers that cover the frequency range and deliver sound pressure levels that are balanced and smooth. Each of the drivers deliver a portion of that sound, but only the sum of them all deliver music. The very best systems have multiple drivers that cover the entire range and deliver that from a single point source.
Those sources will have positions that allow your ears to define left and right with accuracy. Listening the very best systems that produce an accurate sound stage will allow you to actually point at an instrument or performer. for example, drums behind, guitar on the left, singer on the right. If you've never been able to do that, you've not heard a good system.
In the premium and standard equipped cars, you have a tweeter in the door, a 4" driver next to it and a sub in the back. Errr, WTF? Mid bass? Nah, you dont need that, just crank the sub... Imagery? The drivers side speakers are as close to the driver as possible and the far side one as far away as they can. Might aswell be a mono system. Getting speakers with as equal path length as you can or time alignment is the only way to achieve a good image.
In comes B&O. Lets put a mid bass driver in coz otherwise it sounds poo and a cool motorised tweeter in the dash. Great! But why in the hell did they fit the mid in the centre tunnel facing outwards? Probably to get the imagery as bad as humanly possible. Then to make sure that all three drivers are as far apart as possible to give a disjointed sound. Awesome!
What they did do right was enclose the drivers in boxes to tighten them up, get the tweeters far away and used active crossovers. Oh, and the coolest motorised tweeters to watch! They might sound harsh, but they are soooo cool!
Take your home HiFi. Lets put one speaker next to your elbow and the other one at the other side of the couch. Then lets put the tweeters on top of the speaker cabinets and the mid range at the bottom, but on the side facing the wrong way so you block the far side mid bass by the couch. Stick a nice B&O badge on it and charge $5k for it.
One of the problems caused by making a car beautiful, then handing it to an engineer and asking "make it work" instead of an engineer handing the designer a car and asking "make it beautiful".....
There is no way to make the sound great with the stock speaker positions. You can make it sound OK to good.
Firstly, the speakers are all quite cheap paper cone drivers. Crossovers are just capacitance filters unless you have B&O which uses active crossovers (3.5khz tweeter crossover if you wondered).
Changing drivers to ones that can deliver more punch will do wonders for any drum tracks you like to listen to on all the systems. If you have premium or standard audio, change the 4" and tweeter for something with dedicated crossovers and preferably a nice silk dome tweeter. The proximity of the tweeter will always make the sound harsh unless you smooth it out. Silk dome are smoother than metallics.
Don't use surround. 3 channel setup will enhance the centre stage but at the cost of attack.
You can do a lot more, but the outlay will be much higher than the return on your investment. If you're REALLY into your music, I'd recommend leaving it alone and spend that money on a nice Naim system at home.
Brent (ex IASCA judge and nationals winner)
There isn't a good sounding stereo in an AML car. There are a number of aspects that you judge in a car HiFi, Tonal Accuracy & Spectral Balance, Sound Stage, Imaging, Linearity and Noise. I think they have a reasonable noise floor.
1 out of 6. Brill.
The standard 160w audio does the job of making some sound but has a huge mid bass hole and no attack.
Premium system built by Alpine and sounds OK but still suffers from the mid bass hole and lack of attack. It does however, have some spectral balance and tonal accuracy. That's because the tweeters are smooth and the tweeter and 4" blend well together. No driver bigger than the 4" before the sub takes over is the cause of the lack of mid punch. Having an equaliser helps tune the sound.
B&O has better frequency response than the others but the sound is deeply flawed with awful sounding highs and the imagery is the worst I've experienced in some time.
Let me explain myself as best as I can for you. To get a sound that mimics a live performance, you need to be able to recreate the frequencies and energy that such a sound requires. This means you need speakers/drivers that cover the frequency range and deliver sound pressure levels that are balanced and smooth. Each of the drivers deliver a portion of that sound, but only the sum of them all deliver music. The very best systems have multiple drivers that cover the entire range and deliver that from a single point source.
Those sources will have positions that allow your ears to define left and right with accuracy. Listening the very best systems that produce an accurate sound stage will allow you to actually point at an instrument or performer. for example, drums behind, guitar on the left, singer on the right. If you've never been able to do that, you've not heard a good system.
In the premium and standard equipped cars, you have a tweeter in the door, a 4" driver next to it and a sub in the back. Errr, WTF? Mid bass? Nah, you dont need that, just crank the sub... Imagery? The drivers side speakers are as close to the driver as possible and the far side one as far away as they can. Might aswell be a mono system. Getting speakers with as equal path length as you can or time alignment is the only way to achieve a good image.
In comes B&O. Lets put a mid bass driver in coz otherwise it sounds poo and a cool motorised tweeter in the dash. Great! But why in the hell did they fit the mid in the centre tunnel facing outwards? Probably to get the imagery as bad as humanly possible. Then to make sure that all three drivers are as far apart as possible to give a disjointed sound. Awesome!
What they did do right was enclose the drivers in boxes to tighten them up, get the tweeters far away and used active crossovers. Oh, and the coolest motorised tweeters to watch! They might sound harsh, but they are soooo cool!
Take your home HiFi. Lets put one speaker next to your elbow and the other one at the other side of the couch. Then lets put the tweeters on top of the speaker cabinets and the mid range at the bottom, but on the side facing the wrong way so you block the far side mid bass by the couch. Stick a nice B&O badge on it and charge $5k for it.
One of the problems caused by making a car beautiful, then handing it to an engineer and asking "make it work" instead of an engineer handing the designer a car and asking "make it beautiful".....
There is no way to make the sound great with the stock speaker positions. You can make it sound OK to good.
Firstly, the speakers are all quite cheap paper cone drivers. Crossovers are just capacitance filters unless you have B&O which uses active crossovers (3.5khz tweeter crossover if you wondered).
Changing drivers to ones that can deliver more punch will do wonders for any drum tracks you like to listen to on all the systems. If you have premium or standard audio, change the 4" and tweeter for something with dedicated crossovers and preferably a nice silk dome tweeter. The proximity of the tweeter will always make the sound harsh unless you smooth it out. Silk dome are smoother than metallics.
Don't use surround. 3 channel setup will enhance the centre stage but at the cost of attack.
You can do a lot more, but the outlay will be much higher than the return on your investment. If you're REALLY into your music, I'd recommend leaving it alone and spend that money on a nice Naim system at home.
Brent (ex IASCA judge and nationals winner)
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Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 42
From: Holland
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I've had both the Premium system (V8V and V12V) and the B&O system (current V12VS).
Both are excellent for OEM car audio, but the Premium system is slightly better IMO. It is also more adjustable. The B&O is pretty, but it is not worth the huge price from new. Used on the other hand, there probably isn't much of a price difference.
As for SACDs, come on. It's a car (and a noisy one at that), not your living room. I can barely tell the difference between streamed Bluetooth content from my phone and 320 mp3's off a USB stick when driving my car, never mind lossless audio. Radio on the other hand, yeah, that's pretty awful, but nothing new there!
Both are excellent for OEM car audio, but the Premium system is slightly better IMO. It is also more adjustable. The B&O is pretty, but it is not worth the huge price from new. Used on the other hand, there probably isn't much of a price difference.
As for SACDs, come on. It's a car (and a noisy one at that), not your living room. I can barely tell the difference between streamed Bluetooth content from my phone and 320 mp3's off a USB stick when driving my car, never mind lossless audio. Radio on the other hand, yeah, that's pretty awful, but nothing new there!
That being said it is a non issue when you buy a used car and either B&O or Premium is already in there. Both sound good (enough) to go for the car you want, regardless the audio system. If I would buy new I would go for Premium always (even when at the same price).
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Again, I'm not an audiophile but after having the B & O stereo and experienced the difference in sound, given the opportunity between two different Vantages similar in ****, I'd spend a few thousand more on a used car for the B & O.
