Hello again,

I need some advice.

I recently purchased a GT3-R (2015 in Black) from a dealer across the country. Long story short, the car was not as represented. It was listed as a "1 Owner, No Accidents, Showroom Quality" car. When it arrived, the Batteries were dead (they were original to the car), the MMI was broken and it had clearly been in an accident (The front fenders are bent, the bumper has been repainted and the front splitter isn't the Carbon that the car came with). The Carfax also indicated one-owner and no accidents as substantiation for the add. When I received the title it had been "Jumped" (i.e. the second owner had not obtained a title when he made the purchase from the original owner). A state records search shows only the original owner and milage when purchased new from Bentley.

I got a decent deal (not spectacular) but it's a super rare car and I don't want to give it back. (The car is at the Bentley dealer being repaired now) I am wondering how to proceed, though. I'd like to get the dealer to pay for the repairs, at least. As I understand it the "Jumped Title" is a big problem for them (and potentially me). They are in California, BTW.

I think I should speak to a lawyer to see what the rules are in this area. Does anybody have any advice or recommendations? Anybody have this situation and did you get to an acceptable conclusion?

Thanks in advance for your help!

 

Sorry to hear about trouble with your new ride.

I bought a Turbo R about fifteen years ago from a dealer in another State. When I got the car, it ran poorly and my very good RR indy mechanic found that it had a fried engine computer, and that the CEL had been disabled so it wouldn't light up and show the fault.

Fortunately I own a law firm so I was able to threaten them into paying $5k for a new computer. My suggestion would be to figure out what would make you happy and whole, and find a local lawyer to threaten to sue them in YOUR home State unless they make things right. Having to defend a fraud lawsuit in another State is a pretty good threat. What you describe is clearly fraud IMO.

 

Hello @rrowley ,
Just for clarification I have to ask, if the vehicle was listed at the dealership as a one owner and no accidents, and the carfax also shows one owner and no accidents, and the state records search only show the original owner and mileage as purchased new from Bentley, then where does any information of a second owner jumping title ever come in, as you say he jumped title, how is this known if this supposedly second owner never titled, registered, or insured the vehicle, how do you know there was a second owner ?

Johnny

 

Sure,

Title Jumping (also sometimes called Title Skipping) is when one owner signs over a title to a buyer but a new title is never issued by the state. The dealer sent me the title and it had the second owners name on it and the original owners signature releasing his interest. Technically the person who violated the law is the second owner who never filed for a title with the state.

 

@rrowley

No need for the explanation , I clearly understood that already... 😀

I have had the same experience, in your case, I put this 100% on the dealership that you purchased the vehicle from, as when they took the vehicle in, they received the title, therefore they knew fair well that the vehicle was not a one owner as clearly shown on the title as you state, yet they chose to list and sell it as a one owner...

Did you search the second owner to see if he was dealer of some sort himself, therefore he would just fill out the reassignment portion of the title as the dealership did.

Not sure on the rules of your state, but some (and this could be bs, and I think it is) have said that if the vehicle was never registered as it can't be unless the title is flipped, then that owner doesn't count as he never drove the vehicle, unless the is a large number of milage accumulated to prove otherwise, again I don't buy this.

But I would check out the second person to see if he is some kind of dealer, as my vehicle was a one owner before me, but I am not the second person to have it in their possession, my rebuild GT went from the original owner to the insurance company and had it sold at auction, the buyer was a repair shop with a dealer license, he parked it for over a year, he sold it to the buyer who beat me on ebay, that buyer who became my seller builds motorcycles and has a dealer license also, he did nothing with the vehicle either, as it was over his head he said, so none of them ever titled the vehicle because, for one it didn't run, damaged from hurricane Sandy, and as they each had a shop with license neither had to do the title work.

It's worth checking out, I have even searched people out and called them to get the full story, the key is to be polite on such call.

Good luck, and please post some pictures of your beauty !


Johnny

 

What dealer did you buy it from?

 

Thanks Johnny,

I misunderstood your question, sorry about that!

I checked, and it looks like the second owner is a person who collects cars. The story is they purchased it from the original owner and never drove it. It kind of checks out, since the title lists the mileage as about 200 less than it has now back in 2017. The title is from California and they are sticklers for this sort of thing. Luckily my state isn't so bad and gives the people processing the title a bit more discretion. That still doesn't absolve the second owner of tax evasion and the dealer of breaking the rules. Just because you don't drive it, you still need to pay sales tax.

Thanks for your note, I appreciate it.

P.S. Your rebuild is amazing!

 

@rrowley ,
I agree with everything you stated, the only difference being, that if in fact the car collector does in-fact have a dealer license then he would not have to pay any taxes, and more importantly, he would not be listed as the second owner, you would, therefore adding more value to your vehicle, that is why I suggested reaching out to him for some clarification.

Johnny

 

Ok, I understand. I'll look into that and verify. Thanks again for your help.