I've been tracking cars for over 10 years now and karts before that. Can a novice or near-novice tell the difference between 2 properly setup cars each one running a different suspension? I sure hope so if he plans to drive on the same road course at speed with others. No its not about the bling, its about knowing you will have a very predictable handling car when going 100+mph through corner after corner, lap after lap. You can run Michelin PS2 at the track or Sport Cups, but why run something you know is inferior from the start and in the long run you will benefit from making the right choice first. If you can get your hands on KW's racing stuff then it may be another story.

PJS: Call GMG/Eurosport/Fall Line/Farnbacher/Matrix and tell them that you are going to track your GT3 10-15 days (that could be as much as 750 laps) per year and I'll bet that you will only get one answer from all of them. Okay I am done selling you and reselling myself

Thanks Mojo...
I have asked myself the question 100 times in the last few days...

Along those lines, I think that in stock form the car is good for 10-15 days a year... would you disagree with that?

When I say good.. I simply mean safe to run... not optimum, but safe and up to the task without a failure... granted one may be a bit slower on stock suspesnion...

If you follow/agree with that... then I think the KWs will be an improvement when compared to stock... which in turn means that safetywise the KW should not be problematic.

Most of my track days are at Pacific Raceways with only one corner (turn one) at speeds of 100+ and I am currently totally stock suspension and feel comfortable pushing 130+ thru turn one...

At the same time I totally understand the point that you are making.

Thanks for your further input... I am soaking all of this in...

How much are you getting them KW for?

I cannot disagree with you that a stock GT3 is not a capable track car. We all know its one heck of a track car. What I cannot tell you for sure is that the V3's will be a major leap forward from what you already have. So if I was going to spend $2800 plus install I would have to think hard and consider if I am not just spending money for the sake of spending it.

Now If I knew I wanted to take a major leap forward and bring the car to "cup" standards and the best way to do that is through the suspension, then I would have to consider buying the right equipment for the job. It's really that easy. An incremental step or a major one.

a girl never tells

we are on the same page

"incremental wallet" or "major leap wallet" is what I have to figure out for myself

Thank god I got some tire rack gift certificates for Christmas!

PJ, SRSLY i'll get you a cupcar .

Unf*ckwithable attitude.

OK...I'll bite. If you would, please share the benefit of the Motons over the KWs? Why are the KWs inferior? And I don't agree that the difference would be noticed by a novice or even an intermediate driver. Most of the time, the car's abilities FAR outpace the driver's ability...and the difference in adjustability between the Motons/KWs are often NEVER realized. How many tweaktheir suspensions after temperature changes durijng the day? or if the sun is shining or behind clouds? Most just have their shop's "set it and forget it". That's the difference...and at that point, it's only bling.

And then ask them what their margins are...

For 10-15 days a year, the only reason one would go faster with Motons is the fact that they are lighter...in the wallet.

Hey, I'm not looking to war here...I'm just trying to help. If you're one who has the skill/ability to properly test and squeeze the benefit of the Moton's over an "inferior" (this is really not funny as KW is a fantastic suspension company) coilover, then more power to you and you should probably be in a Cup car earning a living by driving. MOST, the norm not the exception, people would not benefit...just the truth.

Again, the extra money would probably best be spent on more track days or schools.

MOD THE DRIVER FIRST!!!!

Be good,
TomK

KW is not an inferior company. I never said that, what I did say is that a set of V3 are not in the same league as Moton CS or JRZ RS Pro's

Hey if you need me to convince you that good setup is in the same as a great setup. Well....

Well I do...I need you to convice me just what makes it "better"???

Thanks,
TomK

A Word about Moton

Moton Suspension Technology was founded in 1998 by Jerome Van Gool, one of the founders of JRZ, and is based in The Netherlands.

Most modern race cars rely on ground effects or downforce to generate higher cornering speeds, and the suspension uses very little travel to keep aero changes to a minimum. The unique design of the Moton damper uses a 22mm piston rod to provide maximum fluid displacement at small suspension travels, responding to the slightest movement of the suspension.

The greater fluid displacement caused by the cross section of the 22mm piston rod combined with gas pressure in the reservoir, results in an added lifting force on each corner of the car to support the main spring without increasing spring rates. The gas pressure can be varied between 6 bar and 20 bar giving the racer an extra adjustable medium.

The 22mm piston rod compensates for less travel by increasing the diameter of the piston and thus, the displacement of fluid. Most damper manufacturers use a piston of 12mm or 14mm. Using a 22mm piston rod results in about a 300% greater fluid displacement making the damper more responsive at low damping velocities.


Fluid Displacement

Percentage

12mm piston

113 cubic mm

100%

14mm piston

159 cubic mm

136%

20mm piston

380 cubic mm

336%

In other damper designs, the function of gas pressure is to keep the fluid compressed and prevent cavitation. In the Moton damper the gas pressure is used to give an added lifting force on each corner of the car. This lifting force offers a support to the main spring and helps carry the weight of the car so permitting softer main springs. The gas pressure can be varied between 6 bar and 20 bar. This becomes a very effective tool for pitch & squat control and stabilizing the whole platform of the car during cornering.

Gas Pressure 6 bar 8 bar 10 bar 12 bar 14 bar 16 bar 18 bar 20 bar
Lifting force per shock 50.7 lbs 66 83.7 101.4 116.8 134.4 150 167.5
Lifting force; 4 shocks 202.8 lbs 264.5 335 405.6 467.3 538 600 670
Remote Reservoir & Compression Adjustment

The Moton external reservoir contains the gas volume and fluid reserve. Located on the top is the adjustable blow-off valving system and non-return valve. The blow-off valve is designed to handle the large fluid displacement caused by the 22mm piston rod and responds to the slightest movements of the rod. The blow-off valve is spring loaded with Belleville washers and by turning the adjuster, preload is forced on the blow-off valve. Increasing the preload on this blow-of valve creates higher compression damping. This can be adjusted into 15 positions (Club Sports have 7). Using different sized Belleville washers varies the total adjustment range in compression.

Rebound Adjustment

The rebound adjuster is located on the top of the piston rod. Turning on the brass nut closes or opens precisely drilled orifices one-by-one below the piston. Closing off pre-measured orifices is a secure way of keeping the adjustments equal between dampers on the right & left side of the car. The rebound can be adjusted into 16 positions (Club Sport 7).

Rebound and Compression Double Valve Stack

The rebound & compression stack are non pre-loaded and built up in two phases. The primary stack consists of a main valve with a diameter of 34mm (rebound) and 36mm (compression), supported by valves decreasing in diameter according to the damper force requirements. This is the low velocity area of the damping. The secondary stack is separated from the primary stack by a small shim of 0.15mm thickness and 21mm diameter. The secondary stack limits the opening of the primary stack so by changing the composition of the valves, damping forces can be increased or decreased. The secondary stack is the mid and high speed area of the damping.

The Club Sport line of dampers is for the serious club racer and high performance street/DE enthusiast. These dampers have the same technology & precise adjustment that the full-race shocks have. Club Sport dampers are double adjustable, remote reservoir shocks with 7 separate rebound and compression controls. This system will allow you to use a wide range of spring rates and eliminate the worry of having to revalve each time you wish to increase or decrease your spring rate

c2m,
Thanks for the Moton info, and I agree that they are phenomenal units. IMHO, overkill for those who don't earn a living behind the wheel or fight for sponsorships. If the money was burning a hole in my pocket, I'd certainly buy them. But for MOST who want a great suspension that will allow adjustability and spring changes, and will be reasonably priced...

KW...

doing the KWv3s

thanks for all of the input...

essentially it came down to my usage... I basically determined that until I am trailering this car to the track, with slicks, that Motons might be overkill... at this point.

So while I did choose the "incremental step", I believe it to be the right way to go for my usage.

I will report back after install. Car is in the shop for a couple weeks for the KWs, seats, harnesses, custom bar, rear monoballs, toe links, dog bones... and full Manthey carbon fiber kit (wing, splitter, air collector and mirrors).

Thanks again for all of your input -- truly appreciated.

Cool, can't wait to see the end result.

What monoball upper mounts, control arms, and toe links did you go for?