Absolutely. I have them- wouldn't go back, and I'm looking for another set to put on a friend's car. I know some of the factory testing history behind them.

I think it's a case of unreasonable expectations set by PR- they were initially advertised as lasting "the life of the car"... sure. But now there is just as much misinformation the other direction. The pads on them are essentially pagid yellow compound, and you can switch to a number of other compounds (ie pagid black) with no problems. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but there is a reason every Ferrari, bugatti, etc has them as standard or an option, and IMHO it's not fashion. But you do need to pay to play...

 

F1 brakes are awesome. They are like nothing else on this planet but their stopping power is zero until at operating temps. And guess what F1 cars are no good for streets. Last time I've looked most Porsches are driven on streets with some track days tossed in. When a truck pulls out in front of you on the highway which brakes would you rather have? Me personally – steels as they will bite with no delay from cold. The advantage of ceramic is that once hot they are fade-free and will ultimately perform better. But you need to cook them to keep them hot. So, this really is a no brainer; steel for street and ceramics for track. And the reason why racers are going back to steels (upgraded), is because it is cheaper for nearly the same performance. 15K for the set of OEM brakes for an amateur racer – common – it’s insane!

 

I don't know for the street because I thought they wouldn't overheat at least, but PCCB are no good for track usage for sure. The reason is quite simple actually: they are not real carbon ceramics ! Porsche use only a thin layer laminated to the rotor... Ferrari and other manufacturers you mentionned are using the real thing. Good for you if you like them, but keep them off the track and hope they bite when cold in an emergency stop on the streets !

 

No one uses "real" carbon rotors on the street for the cold stopping reasons mentioned. All of those guys are using rotors made by the same guys porsche is. It's all different generations of the same stuff. You don't hear many complaints...

Thanks for the "warning", but GT3 supercup cars have been using PCCBs at the track for years, and they weigh ~700 lbs more than my car, run on stickier rubber, etc. I'll "make do" with what I have thanks.

 

F1 = carbon/ carbon
PCCB = ceramic

I don't remember hearing many complaints about a 1 second delay on cold bit. I guess every magazine that's tested cars with ceramics must have missed that...

 

Well if you really have them on your car you should know. ;-). Drive in the rain on a cold day for 15 minutes at 80mph, then jam the brakes. Let me know your findings... ;-).

 

Well, if a picture worth a thousand words...

 

More than... cheap replacement order of the day?

 

I obviously know that many owners destroy their PCCBs at the track. I've said this before:

Unlike steel, which fades as it gets to high temps, PCCB maintains its coefficient of friction. Unfortunately at very high temps it destroys itself in the process. The life vs temperature curve is very non-linear, and it's very steep at the top. Get the brakes a little bit hotter and they loose lots of life.

Porsche used pro drivers to extensively test the PCCBs at the track (obviously- this is a liability issue if nothing else) and they did very well. These drivers actually brake less than amateur drivers and go faster- net, they don't get the brakes as hot. They also don't go off sideways into gravel traps and ping the rotors with rocks. Result- what was "good enough" in porsche's testing was overheated and destroyed quickly in amateur hands.
Solution: increase cooling to keep the rotors cooler. Increased venting is the primary difference between gen1 and gen2 rotors. Keeping the rotors even slightly cooler will dramatically increase life (if you don't hit them with rocks).

The life/ performance trade-off will be different for each car and driver, as obviously street/ track usage is different, not all drivers are equally mechanically sympathetic, some race on hotter days, etc. If you don't like them or feel they are too expensive to replace by all means don't get them. If I was running a 3400 lb with driver 997 gt3 and I wasn't made of money I probably wouldn't run them either (though I'd consider extra ducting or weight reduction as alternatives). The same brakes on a car that weigh a full 1000 lbs less, however, are obviously not going to get as hot, won't get to the critical high temps, and as a result will last not a little bit, but many times longer.

That's the theory, anyway, based on some info from some of the factory race guys. I actually don't know how long they will last in practice on my car. For a light car, however, the extra weight from steel brakes is simply not an option- the spung vs unsprung mass ratio gets too poor for the wheels to track the road with larger steel brakes, and cornering traction suffers. So it's either PCCB or the smaller steel brakes I had before, and I can tell you there is no comparison in performance. As I said I'm very happy so far, but that's not to say you should be too... Just keep in mind that you can always sell them to me ;-)

 

"Steel fades"? Must be some weird new law of physics I haven't heard of yet....
Pagid Black on PCCB? Are you insane? PeteVB...you've a bit to learn.
Too much anecdotal baloney - methink you've been fed.

Pete, what car(s) do you have?

 

You are not aware that the coefficient of sliding friction between two materials varies with temperature? Well now you are. Yes, brake fade with cast iron disks is due to temperature.

The stock pads for PCCBs are P90 compound. For racing Porsche suggests P40 as a higher friction alternative.
P90 = Pagid RS19 Yellow medium friction endurance pad, ceramic, which is based on:
P40 = Pagid RS14 Black, medium high friction ceramic

http://www.braketechnology.com/racecharacteristics.html
http://www.braketechnology.com/techinfo.html

From the PCA tech info web site:
All of the "special PCCB pads" up to this point have been Pagid endurance race pads. If you were to get them from the aftermarket, they would be RS19 compound. If you get them from Porsche, they are P90 compound. The comparison is to the P40 compound which is more for actual racing, e.g. sprint races. The P40 is analogous to the RS14 compound.

An engineer we know from Pagid told us there are slight differences in the two versions of each compound for ABS.


I've owned about 10 porsches, but my current one is a caged, carbon roof and fenders '69 911 with an over 400 rwhp '06 GT3 cup motor, 2x adjustable JRZs, ~2100 lbs wet, PCCB brakes. Power to weight ratio is a bit better than a CGT. What kind of car do you have?

 

Well spotted. .

"If you don't like them or feel they are too expensive to replace by all means don't get them. If I was running a 3400 lb with driver 997 gt3 and I wasn't made of money I probably wouldn't run them either (though I'd consider extra ducting or weight reduction as alternatives)..."

What's that got to do with it - yeah all of us with 911's are really poor...

 

Lot's of talk about PCCB vs. (stock) steel rotors. What's interesting to me (although I haven't spent the time to investigate) is an aftermarket lighter-weight steel option that outperforms the stock steel setup while retaining a rational rotor replacement cost. I probably woudn't do it since my car is primarily a daily driver (the other reason I haven't investigated ) but for folks on the fence about PCCB vs steel, this seems like a good option to be adding into the mix.

 

Weighing the stupid high costs vs. the gotta have it factor: I sure as hell wouldn't go out of my way to GET PCCBs if I didn't have 'em.

 

please elaborate.