GT3/GT2 Performance and Track Discussion on the Porsche GT3 and GT2

Heel Toe Concept

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Old Jul 30, 2009 | 04:21 PM
  #16  
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Originally Posted by fastz33
what was that double tap on the gas????


if heel toe doesnt work

try rolling ur ankle, when i get lazy thats waht i do. very easy to do jus dont pound on the brake while u do it lol
that double tap was a downshift of two gears. i do that too.

heel and toe is pretty hard. do you guys always use heel and toe during street driving?
 
Old Jul 30, 2009 | 06:18 PM
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I have an older 911 and the pedal placement is less than ideal for heel to toe.

I ended up adding a 0.75" piece of wood to the accelerator pedal to get it more in line with the brake pedal at threshold braking. This enables me to use my toes / ball of my foot on the brake and my heel to blip the throttle.

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Old Jul 30, 2009 | 11:17 PM
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My previous car was a Mazda rx8 and the pedal placement was horrible. I wear a size 12 and had difficult time spanning the pedals. Had I been more aware about peddle placement I would have made some mods. Currenty I drive a a ford mustang and the peddles are much closer together, after the difficultly with the rx8 I was a pro in the mustang lol. If it feels extremly awkward try some asjustments I wish I did.
 
Old Jul 31, 2009 | 12:15 AM
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I heel-toe during street driving.. sometimes while stopping at red lights (great practice for basic rev matching as well). I try to do it as much as possible. In my RS4, I roll my foot to blip the gas... so easy in that car.. actually too easy. In my RS, it's harder on the street and for me, requires more twisting and blipping with heel of foot. At the track, it's way easier, especially once the brakes are at temperature and the pedals are more aligned (vs. gas pedal being too far back relative to brake pedal w/cold brakes). Despite this, I still need to use my heel. I actually like doing it this way. I am used to it now and it helps me establish a rhythm during lapping sessions. I would say heel-toe is a must for smooth/fast driving on the track.
 
Old Jul 31, 2009 | 12:23 PM
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Thanks for all of the above posts. Here is a pic of the Rennline pedals, with the throttle extenders attached. I also have the adlustable lifter plate on mine. Still practicing.
 
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Old Jul 31, 2009 | 02:37 PM
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On my 993, heel and toe requires only rolling of the ankle and side of the foot- dead easy. In my RS, I need to use more of the actual heel to get the heel and toe done and this means more twisting of the foot. Practice it whenever possible, even daily commutes... it becomes second nature after a while....
 
Old Aug 1, 2009 | 08:04 PM
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The easiest way to learn heel/toe is to drive a car that has throttle adjustment issues where the car will stall if you let it idle, at least that's how I inadvertently learned The stalling issue has long been fixed, but the heel/toe stays with me to this day.
 
Old Aug 1, 2009 | 09:08 PM
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Practicing on the street is a must as it sometimes takes hundreds of rev-matches to calibrate yourself to the car. Eventually it will become second nature, which is useful on the track when you have other things to focus on.
 
Old Aug 2, 2009 | 12:37 AM
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Originally Posted by drnano
Practicing on the street is a must as it sometimes takes hundreds of rev-matches to calibrate yourself to the car.
Everyone says that, but at least for me in my cars, I find it extremely difficult to heel/toe on the street. I need the hard braking done at the track to get my rhythm. It's 2nd nature for me at the track (but then again, I have many thousands of track miles) but I still can't do it on the street.

Parking lot practice would be great for someone like me though.
 
Old Aug 3, 2009 | 08:05 PM
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Originally Posted by drnano
Practicing on the street is a must as it sometimes takes hundreds of rev-matches to calibrate yourself to the car. Eventually it will become second nature, which is useful on the track when you have other things to focus on.
I agree with Rob, I am a heal roller too. You can practice this task in steps on Street;1) blip the throttle on down shifts with out HT, once you get used to blipping on downshifts you will like it, I do it all the time, Just habit now. 2) start braking with just the ball of your foot. Get used to applying brake pressure with just the ball of your foot. 3) then start combining braking with the ball of foot, roll your foot over to blip. once you get it you will love it and use it.

If your going to take track driving to the next level you have to get this skill. its the only way to keep the car smooth under heavy braking.
 
Old Aug 5, 2009 | 01:24 PM
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Originally Posted by fastz33
what was that double tap on the gas????
I believe he was rev matching while down shifting. I could be wrong...
 
Old Aug 5, 2009 | 02:18 PM
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As many have mentioned I believe the term "heel-toe" is somewhat of a misnomer; especially in a GT3 with stock pedals. The "roll" works quite well except under some extreme track braking where my foot has come off one or between pedals. Angling the foot slightly will solve this. Practice, practice.
 
Old Aug 5, 2009 | 03:28 PM
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Heel and toe is easier when you are on the track and the brake pedal is at the deepest position possible for that particular braking situation. Under those circumstances, the brake pedal and the accelerator are closer to each other.

It is hard to practice on the street because you are not braking with the same force and the brake pedal is not as close to the accelerator as it will be under track circumstances.

It is hard to learn when you are novice because you don't brake that hard and late before your turn-in point. It is also hard because you don't have the confidence.

Take it easy, most likely at this time you don't need "heel and toe" to be faster. Once you are faster and you start braking late and hard you will find easier to synchronize the heel and toe movement. At that time, your will find the heel and toe technique beneficial and helpful.
 
Old Aug 5, 2009 | 04:43 PM
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Originally Posted by drnano
Practicing on the street is a must as it sometimes takes hundreds of rev-matches to calibrate yourself to the car. Eventually it will become second nature, which is useful on the track when you have other things to focus on.
I agree, I always do the rev matching on my daily drive. Practice Makes Perfect.

Good Advice.
 
Old Aug 5, 2009 | 08:50 PM
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Good advice. Also, when first learning to heel-toe downshift, it helps if you bias your right knee inward (towards your left knee) when applying the brake with the ball (really just 1st metatarsal bone and your big toe mainly) of your foot to the right side of the brake pedal.

Then, when you need to blip the throttle, roll your right knee outward as you roll your right foot onto the left side of the gas pedal. This technique will help prevent you from depressing the gas pedal at the same time as the brake pedal, especially under hard braking. It feels wierd at first incorporating a knee movement with your braking, but once practiced, it makes the heel-toe timing much easier. At least that's the way I was initially taught it.

Also, practicing on the street helps a bunch. If there is a back road that you can go at least 70 mph on, and it comes to a stop sign, than that will work fine. You can come up fast and hard on the stop sign (assuming no car in front of you) and then late brake really hard like you would on the track and attempt to time at least one or two heel-toe down shifts before coming to a stop.

The entrance to our housing addition is off a country back road, so I can come up on it at 90mph and heel toe downshift from 3rd to 2nd, and then from 2nd to 1st before taking my left turn.



Dan
 
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