991 GT3, are you on the list?
With track use, they have had an issue with breaking and falling off. I'd say that's inconvenient.
Also, to 'fix' that issue, Porsche has now released a new maintenance schedule for the CL wheels that could get quite expensive to follow. And if you don't follow the recommended schedule or do something silly like take the car to a track, they won't cover a problem.
Not to mention the massive torque wrench and other tools needed to follow the 3-page long process for changing a wheel.
Also, to 'fix' that issue, Porsche has now released a new maintenance schedule for the CL wheels that could get quite expensive to follow. And if you don't follow the recommended schedule or do something silly like take the car to a track, they won't cover a problem.
Not to mention the massive torque wrench and other tools needed to follow the 3-page long process for changing a wheel.
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Maybe it's just me but I don't understand why Porsche would offer a manual on the Carrera/Cayman models but not on the GT3. Just seems very illogical to me, possible, yes, probable, no.
, I know it sucks, big time, the 6speed/7speed generation will soon be obsolete SMH!!!!!!
Last edited by Bruce; Dec 26, 2012 at 08:10 AM.
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here's to hoping thats true
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There will be both is my guess, but
I cant imagine that Porsche wont offer both. Granted the manual on the current 991 is based on the PDK gearbox and effectively is not mechanically actuated, per my dealer mechanic, but you can clutch and shift till your hearts desire.
For me, I love my manual and will keep it hopefully for the rest of my existence. And if they stop making manuals, then I hope my value goes up on the car, as some have suggested.
However, having a PDK on my Boxster S, the driving in my opinion is less engaging only if you consider paying more attention to braking markers, line selection, road camber, competing traffic etc less important than shifting.
Personally I get it, but if you really are a track guy, why is shifting manually the end all, be all? If you want to track or race, the goal is to go faster, and clearly a PDK transmission is a more precise and better platform for racing. If its not, why do all the top Formula 1 cars use it? I guess we all could drive as fast as Lewis Hamilton or Seb Vettel, if only we got the chance to get behind the wheel of their car, because driving that car is easy due to no clutch? I think not.
To me the argument would almost be the same as saying that you prefer driving cars without "multi valve cylinders", or only "carburetors" instead of fuel injection or cars with "non power steering" or "non power brakes" or "non-ABS". To me the list goes on, but these are all outdated technologies that none of us would want on a modern sports car.
So not criticizing the case for a manual, we all like what we like to do, but I am asking from a "purist" racer perspective (and I believe most guys attracted to GT3s are attracted because the are the very essence of Porsche racing), why wouldnt you want the things that lower your lap times and allow you to drive at your absolute limit?
For me, I love my manual and will keep it hopefully for the rest of my existence. And if they stop making manuals, then I hope my value goes up on the car, as some have suggested.
However, having a PDK on my Boxster S, the driving in my opinion is less engaging only if you consider paying more attention to braking markers, line selection, road camber, competing traffic etc less important than shifting.
Personally I get it, but if you really are a track guy, why is shifting manually the end all, be all? If you want to track or race, the goal is to go faster, and clearly a PDK transmission is a more precise and better platform for racing. If its not, why do all the top Formula 1 cars use it? I guess we all could drive as fast as Lewis Hamilton or Seb Vettel, if only we got the chance to get behind the wheel of their car, because driving that car is easy due to no clutch? I think not.
To me the argument would almost be the same as saying that you prefer driving cars without "multi valve cylinders", or only "carburetors" instead of fuel injection or cars with "non power steering" or "non power brakes" or "non-ABS". To me the list goes on, but these are all outdated technologies that none of us would want on a modern sports car.
So not criticizing the case for a manual, we all like what we like to do, but I am asking from a "purist" racer perspective (and I believe most guys attracted to GT3s are attracted because the are the very essence of Porsche racing), why wouldnt you want the things that lower your lap times and allow you to drive at your absolute limit?
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Hang on to your 997 GT3's boys and girls! You will drop times for sure in the 991 GT3 but you may lose some of the raw go kart sensation of the 997 variation for sure! It doesn't mean I won't want one.....
The more new generations PDKs out there, the better the 997 GT3 values will hold.
The more new generations PDKs out there, the better the 997 GT3 values will hold.
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Hang on to your 997 GT3's boys and girls! You will drop times for sure in the 991 GT3 but you may lose some of the raw go kart sensation of the 997 variation for sure! It doesn't mean I won't want one.....
The more new generations PDKs out there, the better the 997 GT3 values will hold.
The more new generations PDKs out there, the better the 997 GT3 values will hold.
i like the way you think...
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I cant imagine that Porsche wont offer both. Granted the manual on the current 991 is based on the PDK gearbox and effectively is not mechanically actuated, per my dealer mechanic, but you can clutch and shift till your hearts desire.
For me, I love my manual and will keep it hopefully for the rest of my existence. And if they stop making manuals, then I hope my value goes up on the car, as some have suggested.
However, having a PDK on my Boxster S, the driving in my opinion is less engaging only if you consider paying more attention to braking markers, line selection, road camber, competing traffic etc less important than shifting.
Personally I get it, but if you really are a track guy, why is shifting manually the end all, be all? If you want to track or race, the goal is to go faster, and clearly a PDK transmission is a more precise and better platform for racing. If its not, why do all the top Formula 1 cars use it? I guess we all could drive as fast as Lewis Hamilton or Seb Vettel, if only we got the chance to get behind the wheel of their car, because driving that car is easy due to no clutch? I think not.
To me the argument would almost be the same as saying that you prefer driving cars without "multi valve cylinders", or only "carburetors" instead of fuel injection or cars with "non power steering" or "non power brakes" or "non-ABS". To me the list goes on, but these are all outdated technologies that none of us would want on a modern sports car.
So not criticizing the case for a manual, we all like what we like to do, but I am asking from a "purist" racer perspective (and I believe most guys attracted to GT3s are attracted because the are the very essence of Porsche racing), why wouldnt you want the things that lower your lap times and allow you to drive at your absolute limit?
For me, I love my manual and will keep it hopefully for the rest of my existence. And if they stop making manuals, then I hope my value goes up on the car, as some have suggested.
However, having a PDK on my Boxster S, the driving in my opinion is less engaging only if you consider paying more attention to braking markers, line selection, road camber, competing traffic etc less important than shifting.
Personally I get it, but if you really are a track guy, why is shifting manually the end all, be all? If you want to track or race, the goal is to go faster, and clearly a PDK transmission is a more precise and better platform for racing. If its not, why do all the top Formula 1 cars use it? I guess we all could drive as fast as Lewis Hamilton or Seb Vettel, if only we got the chance to get behind the wheel of their car, because driving that car is easy due to no clutch? I think not.
To me the argument would almost be the same as saying that you prefer driving cars without "multi valve cylinders", or only "carburetors" instead of fuel injection or cars with "non power steering" or "non power brakes" or "non-ABS". To me the list goes on, but these are all outdated technologies that none of us would want on a modern sports car.
So not criticizing the case for a manual, we all like what we like to do, but I am asking from a "purist" racer perspective (and I believe most guys attracted to GT3s are attracted because the are the very essence of Porsche racing), why wouldnt you want the things that lower your lap times and allow you to drive at your absolute limit?
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So not criticizing the case for a manual, we all like what we like to do, but I am asking from a "purist" racer perspective (and I believe most guys attracted to GT3s are attracted because the are the very essence of Porsche racing), why wouldnt you want the things that lower your lap times and allow you to drive at your absolute limit?
Yes, absolutely on the track you want to have the lowest lap times possible and a PDK trans. will help get you there, however on the street with the GT3 you want the raw, connected, driver involved experience that defines the GT3 driving experience and that is mainly what separates the GT3 from the other 911 street models.
We can go round and round on this topic and pretty much have on the various forums/threads but I think the best decision for Porsche would be to offer both and let the buyer decide.
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[QUOTE=TurboDogue;3727962]I cant imagine that Porsche wont offer both. Granted the manual on the current 991 is based on the PDK gearbox and effectively is not mechanically actuated, per my dealer mechanic, but you can clutch and shift till your hearts desire.
For me, I love my manual and will keep it hopefully for the rest of my existence. And if they stop making manuals, then I hope my value goes up on the car, as some have suggested.
However, having a PDK on my Boxster S, the driving in my opinion is less engaging only if you consider paying more attention to braking markers, line selection, road camber, competing traffic etc less important than shifting.
Personally I get it, but if you really are a track guy, why is shifting manually the end all, be all? If you want to track or race, the goal is to go faster, and clearly a PDK transmission is a more precise and better platform for racing. If its not, why do all the top Formula 1 cars use it? I guess we all could drive as fast as Lewis Hamilton or Seb Vettel, if only we got the chance to get behind the wheel of their car, because driving that car is easy due to no clutch? I think not.
To me the argument would almost be the same as saying that you prefer driving cars without "multi valve cylinders", or only "carburetors" instead of fuel injection or cars with "non power steering" or "non power brakes" or "non-ABS". To me the list goes on, but these are all outdated technologies that none of us would want on a modern sports car.
So not criticizing the case for a manual, we all like what we like to do, but I am asking from a "purist" racer perspective (and I believe most guys attracted to GT3s are attracted because the are the very essence of Porsche racing), why wouldnt you want the things that lower your lap times and allow you to drive at your absolute limit?
^^This.
I think from a purist standpoint is the only standpoint the argument for a true 3 pedal car can be made. I don't care how fast you are at making the shift - you'll be quicker without having to engage a clutch and throw a lever.
That being said, I've no interest in owning a road going Porsche that's not a true manual. It's just part of the connection to the car, and the road.
My GTR was faster than my GT3 at the track, the majority of the reason was the transmission. Well that and the unicorn tears, dragons breath, and whatever the hell other black magic Mizuno and his team uses. However, at the end of the session, it felt like I hadn't taken part in the event as much as in the GT3.
The 991 Cup Car has paddles, and I would/will own one of these - but it's strictly about being faster - and you have PLENTY of other stuff going on to keep you busy in the car. Luckily the 991 Cup retains the Metzger engine, as I hope the new GT3's will.
This discussion takes place all over the spectrum. A few weeks ago I had a conversation with someone regarding the "autoblipper" on my car with a sequential gearbox. He told me that it removed involvement because you no longer had to "heel-toe" on downshifts. I told him to enjoy the dance between brake and gas pedals and I'd take the tenths on every downshift to get by him.
For me, I love my manual and will keep it hopefully for the rest of my existence. And if they stop making manuals, then I hope my value goes up on the car, as some have suggested.
However, having a PDK on my Boxster S, the driving in my opinion is less engaging only if you consider paying more attention to braking markers, line selection, road camber, competing traffic etc less important than shifting.
Personally I get it, but if you really are a track guy, why is shifting manually the end all, be all? If you want to track or race, the goal is to go faster, and clearly a PDK transmission is a more precise and better platform for racing. If its not, why do all the top Formula 1 cars use it? I guess we all could drive as fast as Lewis Hamilton or Seb Vettel, if only we got the chance to get behind the wheel of their car, because driving that car is easy due to no clutch? I think not.
To me the argument would almost be the same as saying that you prefer driving cars without "multi valve cylinders", or only "carburetors" instead of fuel injection or cars with "non power steering" or "non power brakes" or "non-ABS". To me the list goes on, but these are all outdated technologies that none of us would want on a modern sports car.
So not criticizing the case for a manual, we all like what we like to do, but I am asking from a "purist" racer perspective (and I believe most guys attracted to GT3s are attracted because the are the very essence of Porsche racing), why wouldnt you want the things that lower your lap times and allow you to drive at your absolute limit?
^^This.
I think from a purist standpoint is the only standpoint the argument for a true 3 pedal car can be made. I don't care how fast you are at making the shift - you'll be quicker without having to engage a clutch and throw a lever.
That being said, I've no interest in owning a road going Porsche that's not a true manual. It's just part of the connection to the car, and the road.
My GTR was faster than my GT3 at the track, the majority of the reason was the transmission. Well that and the unicorn tears, dragons breath, and whatever the hell other black magic Mizuno and his team uses. However, at the end of the session, it felt like I hadn't taken part in the event as much as in the GT3.
The 991 Cup Car has paddles, and I would/will own one of these - but it's strictly about being faster - and you have PLENTY of other stuff going on to keep you busy in the car. Luckily the 991 Cup retains the Metzger engine, as I hope the new GT3's will.
This discussion takes place all over the spectrum. A few weeks ago I had a conversation with someone regarding the "autoblipper" on my car with a sequential gearbox. He told me that it removed involvement because you no longer had to "heel-toe" on downshifts. I told him to enjoy the dance between brake and gas pedals and I'd take the tenths on every downshift to get by him.
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With track use, they have had an issue with breaking and falling off. I'd say that's inconvenient.
Also, to 'fix' that issue, Porsche has now released a new maintenance schedule for the CL wheels that could get quite expensive to follow. And if you don't follow the recommended schedule or do something silly like take the car to a track, they won't cover a problem.
Not to mention the massive torque wrench and other tools needed to follow the 3-page long process for changing a wheel.
Also, to 'fix' that issue, Porsche has now released a new maintenance schedule for the CL wheels that could get quite expensive to follow. And if you don't follow the recommended schedule or do something silly like take the car to a track, they won't cover a problem.
Not to mention the massive torque wrench and other tools needed to follow the 3-page long process for changing a wheel.
(slightly) inconvenient...Oh, the price we will pay for Porsche bling!
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Yes, absolutely on the track you want to have the lowest lap times possible and a PDK trans. will help get you there, however on the street with the GT3 you want the raw, connected, driver involved experience that defines the GT3 driving experience and that is mainly what separates the GT3 from the other 911 street models.
We can go round and round on this topic and pretty much have on the various forums/threads but I think the best decision for Porsche would be to offer both and let the buyer decide.
We can go round and round on this topic and pretty much have on the various forums/threads but I think the best decision for Porsche would be to offer both and let the buyer decide.
Porsche should just offer both and let the sales figures speak for themselves. If the PDK out sells the manual by a significant amount they have their answer and then the next generation can be PDK only.
I just traded my 991S for a 997.1 GT3. The 991 chassis is fantastic and in an average driver's hands, it will be faster than the GT3. But the GT3 driving experience was so great that I did not mind trading a 2012 car for a (5,000 miles, show room condition) 2007 GT3.
I am considering the 991 GT3 VERY seriously, but there is no way I am going to place an order without driving one first. It is too much about the experience to just bet on specs. And if I have to wait a bit longer to get it built, so be it!
I am considering the 991 GT3 VERY seriously, but there is no way I am going to place an order without driving one first. It is too much about the experience to just bet on specs. And if I have to wait a bit longer to get it built, so be it!
GT2 RS soon to be in my stable of cars.
