I'm in the market for a 997 GT3 right now. This would be my first Porsche, so I'm unfamiliar with some of the details around what is "high mileage", how many owners are acceptable, etc.

Market Timing: First and foremost - does it seem like the next 12 months will be the wrong time to buy a 997 GT3? I've casually conducted searches for the past 3 or 4 years, and have looked up old threads here, and a couple of years ago the '07s and '08s were going for prices more in the $60-75k range. Now I'm seeing a lot of '07s in the $80k+ range, and there's very little inventory. Obviously the inflation that's going on here is related to fear & speculation about the 991 GT3 and its auto-box, people holding their existing GT3 until a 991 is delivered, etc. Do you guys think the 997 (.1 and .2) GT3s are set up for a significant dive in market value in the next 24 months, or do you think their value will continue to increase?

What constitutes high mileage? I see some GT3s for sale with 40-50k miles, some as high as 60k miles. The engine is rock solid, but I've been told by some friends to stay away from these because there are too many miles. Your thoughts? How High is too high?

How many owners is too many? The number of owners that the typical GT3 sees is somewhat crazy. It seems like for a car with 20-30k miles, I am usually seeing between 3 and 5 owners. By comparison, if I were buying a M3 or something like that with similar miles, that would be a major warning sign. As GT3 owners, where do you draw the line?

gracias.

 

At first I thought the market would level and decrease in the coming year, but now I think it's going to stabilize and slowly increase from here on out. The 997 GT3's have etched out their place and I think they will be sought after cars from here on out.

That's just my opinion.

 

The reason for multiple owners on cars with higher mileage (>25K) is that the first buyers in many cases were ones that wanted the "latest, greatest" Porsche. Then comes the RS, then the 997.2 GT3, then the .2 RS, then the RS 4.0. You get the idea. Then the cars get passed down to the next 'financial tier' (like me). And many were leased and have subsequent lessees or owners, sometimes several.

My recommendation is to evaluate a given car on it's merits based on price. The bubble wrapped garage queens will command what seem to be unrealistically high prices as the market for those cars are the collectors, not the guys/ladies who actually want to enjoy the driving experience. That's great if you can afford that luxury. Many of us can't.

My 997.1 GT3 is my 22nd Porsche over a 41 year period. I could not afford a well-kept RS and I hoped to find a GT3 that had been primarily street driven. I was very fortunate that a good friend had a 2007 non-RS GT3 for sale that was in pristine condition but had 38K miles - which is considered "high miles" in the GT3 community. But for a six year old, non-tracked, highly optioned, carefully maintained GT3 owned by a very picky friend who has owned Porsches longer than I have, the higher mileage was a non-issue.

It all boils down to what you want to do with the car...Gaze longingly at it in the garage with your other automotive art? Track it? Drive it on nice sunny days? Daily drive it?

There are nice GT3's with higher mileage and ragged out ones with lower mileage. Buy the car because you love it. If you are considering it as an investment, a RS is your best bet but be prepared to pay up for those two little letters.

I really don't think the 991 GT3 is going to seriously impact the value of the 997 versions in a negative way since the 997 GT3's are the last "analog" ones with the Mezger GT1 engine that has actual racing heritage, a manual gearbox, no electric power steering, rear steering or a Panamera center console. Consider the MSRP of the new GT3 and what the upcoming RS version will list for - supposedly close to $200K. This makes a clean, well-kept 997.1 GT3 a screaming bargain at $75-85K.

 

^+1 Jack. It does boil down to what an individual wants and expects from the car. To me, the previous ownership and vehicle history of use and maintenance is important regardless of mileage. I've driven mine rain or shine since I bought it in Feb. 2013. (The exception is now of course with our northern winters and accompanying rocks and salted roads,etc.) These cars are GREAT on long road trips and shorter trips on numerous local twisties (no track in the area, no track insurance or budget for serious tracking for me but that isn't obligatory to own a GT3). I enjoy the overall experience a 3 delivers immensely, so why would I just park it and just look at it? I bought the car to use it and never considered it to be any kind of investment.
So it's not a serious matter to me what it's worth on the market right now or in the immediate future (unless of course its value somehow skyrockets and someone wants to pay me a bunch more than I have into it - then I'd have to consider what the alternative(s) might be.. Right now I can't think of one that wouldn't cost me even more than I would receive from selling mine and match or exceed the enjoyment it provides for me!
No crystal ball here, but my opinion is if the OP is concerned about the value of the Mezger GT3's going forward, it looks like you can flip a coin once the 991 GT3 is out there in numbers. One would expect the 997 3's to drop over time, but...
Will there be a continued demand for the Mezger 3's,keeping the prices up there versus the ever-increasing pricetag for the new 991 versions, and inflation in prices for Pcars in general? I don't think you can compare what may happen with the 997 GT3 variants in the next while to what has happened with the 996 GT3's with the passage of time. Nowadays, everyone has the opinion that the RS versions will be valuable regardless, but how much down the road?

 

Thanks all - great info. I guess it's all pretty much common sense. You're right, the change in value of the car really shouldn't matter for the short run. I really just hate having leverage working against me while negotiating a price.

 

My .1RS has over 30k miles now. Its a "high miler" and I'm the 4th owner. The car runs and drives like new. Very clean, very, very minimal track use and it shows. Was street driven mostly. Anyway, I picked it up as the market was still low. Now I'd be lucky to pickup the same car for 15-20k more than I paid if sold today.

here's the key: Buy it now if you want it now. You cannot time or predict the market. The prices are higher than they were a year ago. Get a PPI from a shop that KNOWS these cars inside and out. They will tell you how much and hard it's been driven. You can get it metered and leak/down compression too if you want.

My shop is absolutely amazed how beat on these cars get and how they just keep running, they are very, very well engineered.

Based on the questions you're asking I assume you want to drive it, not put it in a bubble. So don't worry about the things that collectors worry about. Find a great car that has been cared for and driven. You won't regret it.

 

Here's my input:

The 997 GT3 is the last of the analogue GT3 and has the GT1 based engine that has been proven and is durable. But regardless of this fact a lot of 997 GT3/RS owners will make the move to 991 GT3/RS. So as the 991 chassis start appearing more on the 1st hand market, the owners of 997 chassis will start to sell them.

I personally don't believe the 997 Gt3/RS's value will keep rising, on the contrary I believe they will devalue in the next 1 year as the new 991 owners will try to sell their 997's.

Though in the next 10, 20 years pristine 997 GT3/RS' will be rare and the last of it's kind so the value will go up for sure. But that will apply only for collectors cars, not to the cars that have 30-40k on the odometer.

There are many people who buy a 997 GT3/RS to drive only couple times a month and want to keep it as a collector car, so with more miles and more previous owners the value of the car naturally goes down. But that is expected with any car... That does not mean the engine will fail or the car's reliability will not be the same with 30k miles.

So think about why you will be buying the car, to keep it in a garage in bubble wrap, track it, or daily drive it?

 

thanks again for the perspective guys.

This will be mixed use - probably 1k-1500 miles/year, about 50/50 road/track. I have another car that bares the brunt of my brutal (1.5mi) daily commute. Mostly driven during dry weather, but showered with attention during its garage stays.

While maintaining market value is a going concern, I would rather put the car to use for what it was meant for (track duty). As you suggested, if I were buying this as an investment, I'd be looking for a car with very few miles and not considering anything less than the absolute best.

 

Appreciate the thread here. I too am interested in looking at a used GT3. I will be primarily using it as a daily driver...about 80miles/day. Would you say that would be too much for the GT3? Mostly freeway driving with little traffic. I don't have a lot of experience with porsches, and was wondering what the longevity of the engines were like. Still in the process of educating myself here and don't mean to hijack the thread. Thanks for any input.

 

Average 80 miles a day during the week (excluding weekend driving) more or less means 20,000 miles per year. I'd say it's a little much for a GT3 as it will drive the value down. Other than that, you should not encounter any problems...

 

Longevity is a strong point for Porsches. However, the sage advice that has been around for years is to buy the best example you can afford. As the driving experience in a GT3 is quite different than other Porsches, I would suggest somehow getting an opportunity to test drive one if you haven't already, or find an existing owner who will treat you to this, to see if it suits you. Some general downside opinions are: the ride is much firmer (which is actually and upside too), clutch is heavier (once again, upside is great feel) and may not be that fun for you if you end up in stop and go traffic or lots of hill stops, shifter is considered stiff or "knotchy" to some (but upside is that it so matches the car, once you get acquainted with it), etc.

This may or may not be your cup of tea depending on your preferences and the conditions of the freeway and other roads you may frequent. The many positives of the car are what makes it so special: like the great steering feel, the steady involvement and communication with the car and the overall driving experience is superb, not to mention the power and howl of a Mezger flat six , etc.,etc.. Like no other car. Being engaged in the driving experience of such a marvelously engineered sports car is very rewarding.

 

I agree - 80 miles per day in a gt3 is a lot, haha. It would probably cost you more in depreciation than gas

 

I purchased an orange 997 GT3RS a few months ago after years of saving and watching the market wondering when the perfect time to buy is. It is my second Porsche and I hope to keep it for the long haul- I often joke that I hope to only buy Porsches and not sell them. The orange RS was the ultimate car for me from the moment I saw it and I'm still in disbelief its in my garage. I got lucky and had someone respond to a WTB ad I put on Rennlist within an hour and it ended up being the perfect car.Mine has 15k miles and the only options are full leather, bi-xenons and PCCB. One owner car that came out of a collection which included a PTS Mexico Blue 3.8RS and the first 993 Cup Car...my kinda guy!

With respect to price, the prices are definitely at a high. My biggest concern once I became ready to pull the trigger is that I wouldn't be able to find a suitable car. I sorta got in a panic that I wouldn't find one which probably predisposed me to be willing to pay more than I budgeted for a car. The one owner factor was huge for me- the car had everything along with the window sticker and COA and was in impeccable shape. In the end I'm happy with what I paid even if prices go down. I plan to keep this car and believe that this car will be a serious collectable one day. That said, I use it like I would any other car and don't care if its one day worth $30k. If that is the case, I'll pick up a green one for a track only car!

I wouldn't be overly concerned about several owners given the nature of the car. It seems to be one that ends up in a larger collection (at least at first) and gets traded around alot. While I'm happy mine only had one, I would have bought one with four if everything else was in order.

I would say high mileage is anything over 20k. My only concern with higher mileage is for resale only and not for reliability. If the right orange RS had come along with 35k on the clock, I would have snatched it up in a heartbeat.

Hope that helps- pull the trigger, you won't regret it!

 

Don't let mileage alone scare you off with these cars. I own arguably the highest mileage 3.8 RS around (61,300 yesterday) and it has passed every mechanical inspection I subjected it to. Two Porsche dealerships who serviced it for me both said that the car is arguably in better shape mechanically than cars left sitting in garages on their battery tenders. The irony of that statement is that mine is more of a Sunday driver now as the first owner put on the bulk of the mileage, but these are extremely robust cars. You've been given a lot of good feedback already on this thread, and I hope you find a perfect GT3 to call your own.

 

Thanks, I feel better about getting a second, third, or fourth hand used GT3. Still want a new one but I am accepting the culture of Porsche ownership and learning that used is okay to own.