These guys seem like they have it together with their exhaust including a video and dyno numbers...I think I am now seriously considering this pipe for the upgrade. Whatcha yall think???

http://www.europipe.be/1024.html

 

Looks like a nice system and the dyno graphs look like they show an improvement across the range. However, w/o the 100 cel race cats I imagine the performance improvement would be minimal.

 

I believe it's all or nothing package. So I would get it with the cats...

 

Regardless, it looks like a great setup and I know the Europipe stuff is popular with the TT crowd. HP/TQ aside, I am sure that it is also lighter than stock... and right in the rear where the GT3 needs to lose weight too. I think this would be better than the Gruppe M intake. I would be concerned with what the cat swap might do to your warranty. Let us know what you do.

 

Rockitman,
Here is a pic of our complete GT3 system.

Erik

 

Looks similar to europipe...I would not be interested in the headers...only cats and mufflers...Do you guys have dyno runs yet for 2004 GT3...Was your setup originally for the 2000 Mk1 GT3??? here euro's pic

 

rockitman check your pm

 

Rockitman, you DO NOT get HP from a sport muffler set up. Ok, ...... maybe 2 HP. On the N/A set up, its headers and cats that give you power. End mufflers, only deep throaty is what you get. A good header / sport cat set up like Phoenix, Fabspeed, will give you around 12 to 15 HP depending on dyno used and all other variables.

Cats and end mufflers only, ...... don't waist your money.


Theo

 

What's wrong with the headers on a GT3 motor, they are headers after all so what is the difference with using after market cats/muffler with stock headers vs the same set up with the aftermarket headers????

 

Rockit, nothing really wrong with original headers. You see , a companie like Phoenix, who equips all Cargraphic race cars, do get good power from header/cat combos they build. From that testing, they build the components for the street cars. Hence giving the customer the option to keep or change end mufflers. Owner Thomas Schnarr is very meticulous from what I hear in designing these type of systems


Theo

 

Ordered the EP today, but won't be here in time for the dyno day at AWE 12/22. I may wait to install it when we have some decent weather for me to make the trip to install it at AWE and run a dyno before and after the cat/muffler swap. Stef at EP is very helpful and provided these responses to some of the questions I had asked him...

1) Our 100 cell race cats will not cause a Check Engine Light problem .
We had the original 300 cell GT3 cats chemically analysed . According to this chemical analysis our cats are specially coated for street use . The chemical coating is superior to the coating of regular race cats .
The US GT3 engine is identical to the European GT3 counterpart in terms of Lambda / O2 sensor setup .
You do not need an ECU reprogramming with the new exhaust .
However , an ECU reprogramming will indeed maximize the performance of the exhaust system .

2) The dyno graphs are from 1) stock engine , 2) stock engine with the new
exhaust , stock (not reprogrammed) ECU and stock aircleaner .

Dyno stock pipe: 385.1 (PS) Hp
383 NM Torque

Dyno europipe: 397.7 (PS) Hp
394 NM Torque

In summary: +12 HP, +8 lbs/feet torque

At the wheels before(stock): 348 (PS) Hp ***per actual dyno test***
At the wheels after EP: ??? (PS) Hp waiting to re-dyno



Link for yall's reference
http://www.europipe.be/1024.html

 

Spoke with Stef at Europipe. The figure that one should be concerned about is the engine HP increase from stock pipe to europipe. The figures for wheel acheivement are correct, but cannot be used for a reliable rwhp figure. One has to use the an American dyno to get rwhp, whereas the European style dynos measure drivetrain loss and use computer software to accurately determine engine HP. Due to many factors, the conversion factors used to convert American rwhp to engine hp can vary between 0 -10hp and are not necessarily reliable. Here is Stef's quoted explanation:


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"So the difference between an American and a European dyno is that with the European brands you can actually measure the drive train loss and with the American dynos you can not .

The most common European dynos are BOSCH and MAHA .

Put the car on the rolling road(the dyno machine) and after the warm up procedure you shift from first gear to fifth gear . ( 5 th gear ratio = 1:1 on a GT3 ) Run the engine past the max hp rpm range . Then depress the clutch pedal and put into neutral . Now the dyno will measure the drive train loss . Let the car slow down without touching the brakes .
The uncorrected rear wheel hp + the drivetrain loss = uncorrected engine hp.
The dyno software will correct these results to standard ambient conditions
based on DIN 70020 , 780 mmHg ( 1013 pa ) barometric pressure and
20° C temperature .

The drivetrain loss will vary according the rpm range ( greater loss at
higher rpm ) , the type of tires ( street compound or sticky slicks ) ,
tires pressure , temperature of the tires , transmission temperature , etc .

If the dyno can only measure rearwheel horsepower (American Dyno's) , one has to multiply the rwhp with a x-factor to obtain a guesstimated flywheel horsepower .

As the drivetrain loss will vary according the conditions at a given time
(0 - 10 hp differences ), you cannot rely on the rwhp alone to determine
changes of the flywheel horsepower ."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



The professional service and demeanor of this company cannot be overemphasized. I sent him an email last night about this and he responded via email and he took the time to call me personally from Belgium on my cell to discuss the dyno results while I was skiing today up at Killington, VT. Nothing like skiing two feet of powder and hearing the cell phone ring then talking Porsche on the slopes. Pretty cool to say the least!!!
Summary: +12 HP flywheel, +8 lbs/ft torque at the flywheel
Hope this clears up the confusion...So if I want to get a reliable rwhp figure I will need to dyno my car here.

 

Hi Rockitman
I havent been to Killington in years...........2 feet of powder that awesome! All USA dyno operators do EXACTLY the same parasitic drag/ drivetrain calibrations as Europipe described to you..........its a routine as getting an EKG or physical at your doctors.
make sure that you just get a dyno result before & after regardless of any other data.........that is the true bottomline and demonstates a net power gain. Looks like a nice system and like a Cargraphic type arrangement. When I get the muffler bypass pipes finished I will let you know so you will be set for Watkins Glen International.
Joe Fab

 

Thanks Joe!!!

 

Just finished the GT3 Europipe install. Took about 5 1/2 hours all told till test drive. Immediately noticed the deeper/warmer/screamier exhaust note, noticeably improved throttle response. The power seems more immediate on demand than before. Anyways, I will eventually redyno the car for the ultimate litmus test for the HP increase. I am confident that the claims of the MFG are true. I will expect rwhp to be in excess of 360, using the conservative drive train loss factor of 15%...360/.85 = 423 Flywheel HP estimate. Not bad for an NA car. As always, I have detailed pics of the complete install and will be putting together an install gallery for everyone's pleasure...
Before Stock:

After EP: