LFA 1st Test, Z06 speed for 599 GTB money!
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Which I am sure is where the majority of the cars will go, for some rarity apparently is worth $375k. But until I get rich enough to have a car only based on its rarity, my future exotics will actually perform as well and look good!
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The Supra sold poorly in its final years (as did its rivals the 300ZX and RX-7 Turbo). I'm not sure Toyota would want to repeat that experience. Cars in that price bracket are more susceptible to fluctuations in the economy, while the ultra-exotic high priced segment tends to be more resilient. Additionally, the Supra offered really nothing that could be used of benefit to the rest of the lineup. The techniques and materials used in the LFA can definitely improve the emissions and safety of future Toyota products. And instead of joining with CF partners like BMW have done, or working with the University of Washington (which helped Boeing for the 787) for CF technology like Lamborghini have done, Toyota may find itself in a position to be a supplier of CF components, based on work started with the LFA.
The LFA doesn't bring anything revolutionary technically, but it doesn't have to. The Enzo wasn't all that revolutionary, considering the F1 had already beaten its performance figures years before (and could seat 3 people inside, no less). There's not much revolutionary about the SLR, Black Series, Z8, or Ford GT. When Pagani started, it didn't offer anything revolutionary either. Is the Aston One-77 revolutionary? Doesn't seem like it. Yet Aston Martin took plenty of deposits on this car from customers who hadn't even driven it, hadn't even been told of its performance figures (because there aren't really any yet). All of these cars appealed to some niche market, and that's all that the manufacturer could ever really hope for.
The only revolutionary thing the LFA seems to have acheived is raising a Toyota product into the same realm of discussion of legitimate super-exotic cars in the areas that differentiate them from the usual objective performancy-only suspects (ZR1, ACR, etc): build quality, attention to detail, throttle response, handling, braking, composure over real-world surfaces, sound, the overall driving experience which doesn't require a stopwatch or lap timer. Which is to say, something that will be experienced day in and day out. The fact that we're even discussing a Lexus against a Z06 or Murci SV or Scuderia is in itself quite revolutionary, as is the fact that a Japanese manufacturer has sold 500 units of any car at prices above Ferraris/Lambos, and can dictate lease-only terms in a major automotive market.
The LFA doesn't bring anything revolutionary technically, but it doesn't have to. The Enzo wasn't all that revolutionary, considering the F1 had already beaten its performance figures years before (and could seat 3 people inside, no less). There's not much revolutionary about the SLR, Black Series, Z8, or Ford GT. When Pagani started, it didn't offer anything revolutionary either. Is the Aston One-77 revolutionary? Doesn't seem like it. Yet Aston Martin took plenty of deposits on this car from customers who hadn't even driven it, hadn't even been told of its performance figures (because there aren't really any yet). All of these cars appealed to some niche market, and that's all that the manufacturer could ever really hope for.
The only revolutionary thing the LFA seems to have acheived is raising a Toyota product into the same realm of discussion of legitimate super-exotic cars in the areas that differentiate them from the usual objective performancy-only suspects (ZR1, ACR, etc): build quality, attention to detail, throttle response, handling, braking, composure over real-world surfaces, sound, the overall driving experience which doesn't require a stopwatch or lap timer. Which is to say, something that will be experienced day in and day out. The fact that we're even discussing a Lexus against a Z06 or Murci SV or Scuderia is in itself quite revolutionary, as is the fact that a Japanese manufacturer has sold 500 units of any car at prices above Ferraris/Lambos, and can dictate lease-only terms in a major automotive market.
Funny but the Supra was the fastest vehicle Toyota produced and when the project started the engineers were like "Well we clearly have to start from scratch" (you can read some engineer thoughts on the Supra in articles). So the LFA is quite amazing since the company leaped from a Supra to a LFA which has nothing in common. (some might remember the 2000Gt if you are good)
I agree that Toyota learned a lot about CF as they feel light weight is the future and if they can trickle what they learned to other cars well this is a win/win.
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lol...didn't the 911 "internet experts" tell us that the rear-engine 911 platform is maxed out? No more potential. Outdated, over-engineered...unbalanced? How Porsche should move the 911 to the Cayman mid-engine platform? How Porsche's platform was technologically dated?
I'd like to hear from all those guys how the "outdated" 911 platform has away from ALL the supercars...Pagani, Koenigsegg, and yes...even the LF-A.
lol...
I'd like to hear from all those guys how the "outdated" 911 platform has away from ALL the supercars...Pagani, Koenigsegg, and yes...even the LF-A.
lol...
Since further R&D on most any platform can begat further optimization, the 911 platform will surely always improve.
The 911 platform is experiencing diminishing returns with further development and has been since 1988 when we campaigned the last competitive rear engine porsche 935 in IMSA's GTO.
In a quest for more potential, we went to the 944GTR and were instantly rewarded with much faster lap times using a car that had very little development time and about 150hp less.
Sadly, Al Holbert died and that put an end to development on the GTO 944GTR as well hurting 911 "tub car" development.
Both Ferry and Ferdinand porsche preferred the mid-engine layout for performance which is probably why the first porsche was mid-engine.
That said, specific sanctioning bodies and the rules on tire width as well as engine rules have more to do with 911 platform ability on the race track than anything else.
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Every revision of the 911 platform since that 993 has slashed an average of ~15-20 seconds from a run around the ring.
Every 911 that has been powered by the Mezger engine in the last decade has run the 'ring <8:00.
Every 997 Mezger powered 911 now currently clocks the 'ring in under 7:40.
Every GT2 has improved it's ring times by about 20 seconds per generation...with the same relative powerplant.
The GT2 RS has now run a 7:18, nearly 10-15 seconds faster than it's mid engine supercar sibbling, the CGT.
I would not describe this as "diminishing."
Last edited by bbywu; Jun 5, 2010 at 04:40 AM.
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Yes, I consider that diminishing returns.......on the platform.
The performance increases are due to technology advances that would advance any auto platform's performance regardless of layout.
When was the last time a rear engine car competed for an overall victory in LeMans?
The performance increases are due to technology advances that would advance any auto platform's performance regardless of layout.
When was the last time a rear engine car competed for an overall victory in LeMans?
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My question is why don't they use the Cayman in racing since its the superior platform as its mid engined? Put the appropriate engine in etc and go dominate even more. Id bet they would clean up even more-so if they really applied themselves to the mid engined layout. It would take time as it took decades for them to make the rear engined layout work. But I have no doubt that with there expertise/r&d they could do it in a few years, Le Mans GT1 notwithstanding. Didnt they have a mid engined prototype in the LMP2 class in Le Mans series with the Acuras as well?
IMHO Porsche gave up on the GT1 too soon. It won in its debut at Le Mans in the GT1 class, but later because of change of rules/class, air restriction etc it wasn't competitive enough.
http://forums.motortrend.com/70/6521...ord/index.html
how soon we forget.....................unofficially of course!
how soon we forget.....................unofficially of course!