but i think you were still referring to vdc off 'launches'... but that has become quite the small issue now with the tcm update.

as far as track or airstrip - i like the inclusiveness... many people find ways around typical warranty language like running the standing mile, or auto-x, or private tracks on airstrips.

 

Jasper, normally I would agree with you on that but the fact that Nissan has Japan locked down with GPS that recognizes when the car is on a track makes me think they are using the black box for more than they are saying. I believe they can always know for sure when you're on the track whereas other cars you can have flat-bedded to the dealership and tell the tow guy to tell them you picked it up from somewhere else and they'd never know.

Also with the required services after track days, they are basically making you confess to voiding your own warranty. That is a lose - lose for the owner if ever I saw one. That is unfair to anyone.

But like I said, Nissan has had this blow up in their face before, so the enforcement of these rules is what counts. If they void every full warranty because guys tracked the car, it will be hell to pay in the US. That you can count on, that they will get their pants sued straight off. But if they use it as a safety measure to protect against uninformed people who don't know enough about the car to make sure it's dynoed on the right kind of dyno and blow the AWD or people that simply abuse the car, or never change oil, fluids etc. Then it's less offensive.

But voiding a whole warranty for any one breach, is ILLEGAL and punishable by law. And this language only has given their lawyers a mountain of issues were they to get sued.

I did not buy a Z06 for the very reason that there are enough of them that have blown motors at the track and some denied warranty coverage because of it, that I just refuse to take that chance having had a corvette that continuously blew the motor. You can't tell me these rules don't worry you, because they have to if you had any intent on keeping your warranty.

 

i guess the bottom line is to baby your car and the car is there for aesthetic purpose. BS.
totally defeats the purpose of all these performance figures.
they throw out all these track times, performance times, etc. but they dont want customers to take advantage of any of these things.

i just wish that they clearly state that act in manual so you actually dont have to take it to court and stuff.

 

this is my personal belief after many discussions with my dealer gm, others, as well as reading nissan's press releases since the car was scheduled to debut.

nissan wants this car to succeed, and they want to make sure i enjoy the car for a long time. normally if you go to track event, the individual would look after these items himself/herself. nissan expects a greater percentage of gt-r owners, than other car manufacturers, to go to a track for the first time - they recommend it to learn what this car is capable of. but a lot of first time track drivers may not be aware of the care that is required to maintain a high-performance car. so nissan recommends the checks after an event.


the rules of the '10 model don't concern me personally, as i have an '09.

my rules are easier - don't turn off vdc (unless i'm stuck in mud or snow).

 

Hhmmm... Dez,
wasn't your "Vette" slightly.. MODIFIED ?

The Z06 Vette is the current "weapon of choice" among the instuctors... and given that I have owned three Z06's, two with over 50,000 miles before trading, Blown motors on a "STOCK LS6 or LS7 engine" is very rare indeed.

GM did step up and honored their warranty... so long as the engine was "Stock". Even with failures on the track, GM did cover engine replacements on early LS7's (C6 Z06's) with oiling issues or rocker arm failures.

Given GM's situation today, I'm not sure they would be able to be as generous.

More and more... the instuctors are keeping the drive train stock on their Z06's, relying on improving driver ability rather than a horsepower boost, thereby avoiding catastropic engine failures.

Dez, you know Reese *** & MTI.

Lately, these cars are very reliable ~550 plus rwhp. I've been instructing their students over the last couple of years... so I've seen the results MTI's been achieving.

Nissan's position on likely denying warranty on the GT-R...

if the VDC is turned "OFF"...

isn't limited to just "launching"

it's a broad brush stroke

adding another written warranty exclusion.

Is it justifiable... unless you can get into the electronic control tables,

it's hard to determine.

 

true - but how many failures did nissan not honor that weren't launched?

basically - how many transmission failures were because of vdc-off (that were not launched)?

and how many of those were not honored?

i'm leaning closer to zero.

 

Wayne, yeah my car was modded heavily actually. I bought everything there was to put on a LS series motor. C5-R block, Lunati Pistons, Carillo Rods, and it was built twice, blowing up each time, the second of which completely overhauled by Reece. I learned my lesson.

You say the numbers are small, but I've been watching closely and they are big enough to cause worry IMO and that's not a chance I would take. And these are low mileage Z06's. When guys keep tracking them into the 40k mile ranges I just wouldn't want the headache. And don't mention mods, your chances increase dramatically. I'd like to have the freedom to do all bolt ons and have a motor I don't need to worry about. I'm done with crazy hp, but I don't have the same level of comfort you do. I'd buy a used one from a guy who'd tracked his successfully with no problems before I bought a new one. I know they "can" last, but don't want to be the one that doesn't.

 

I had no idea ZO6's were blowing engines on the track? What is the cause of these failures? Did GM cover these failures? Are these mostly modded ZO6's or a good mix?

It seems to me that whenever you have a high performance car you will always run into the risk of failures especially if you track it. A GTR, ZO6 or 997tt etc are running more on the edge versus its less performing brothers

 

The reliability for the Z06 engines has been outstanding.

Go to any club DE track event, be it BMW, Porsche, Viper Days and others, and you will see a large percentage of the "instuctors" driving Z06's. We really push these cars and attend many events each year.

Look at SCCA "T-1" racers, and you'll find the majority are still driving Corvette's C5 Z06.

There have been a few "issues"... related to the first year's production with the C5 Z06/LS6 (oil rings) & early C6 Z06/LS7 (oil pumps & rocker arms) engines. GM stood behind their product and if the engine was "Stock", covered the warranty.


Once you start modifying the engine... reliablity goes down as the horsepower goes up.

The "tuners" are getting better, but there's still a risk.

Waiting to see how the GT-R stands up in simular conditions.

The new 2010 warranty revisions may indicate that Nissan doesn't seem to have great expectations.

 

i think we're all waiting to see that... and now that we've eliminated the launching issue, these cars have been tracked since 2007 and seem to be holding up with quite a few mods (various tuners, teams, etc...).

i'm simply enjoying the scrunity of this car more than any other car in existence, especially by those who would never consider buying one in the first place.

i find that part interesting. there are only 2000 gt-r's in north america, but 20,000,000 gt-r experts.

 

Sooooo true!!!!! These experts dont own one yet have as much knowledge about the GT-R as its creator, Kazutoshi Mizuno......

 

ROTFLMAO


So I am by no means an "Expert" in the GT-R, I have met with the VP Marketing of Nissan (so I have a little insight into Nissan's thinking), and I do own a GT-R, I have also owned numerous other cars (an L82, L98, LS1 an M3 and even a CBR crotch rocket) so I've owned great cars from every continent, so hopefully that dispels any perceived bias I have for being a GT-R owner.

So my opinion on the GT-R warranty is simple. Kazutoshi Mizuno was asked by Ghosen to make the best supercar in the world. He did, and the Nissan risk managers are Horrified by it. I think that sums everything up.

Lets face facts, anyone who thinks they can drive a 400+hp machine on the street at the limit of the cars ability in a safe manner is deluded. We all do it, from GT3 owner to Z06, GT-R to Lexus IS-F, are we being safe? of course, not. We are taking serious life-threatening risks when we do this in a non-track environment.

So why is the GT-R different? Because the GT-R is the "easiest to drive fast" hyper-car I've ever driven (and yes I've driven hypercars from Scuderias to Carrera GTs). Heck an IROC-Z Camaro is more dangerous than this car. Why? Because of the technology, the dual clutch tranny, the AWD, the traction control etc. Turn them off and suddenly you have the fastest machine short of an F1 car that Renault/Nissan has dared put on the street with no aides in an uncontrolled non-track environment. The lawyers know that and want to discourage it.

When I was 16 I thought I was the best driver in the world. Now I'm in my 30s with numerous track days and some race experience and KNOW I am not the best driver in the world. But Nissan knows that some well off 16 year old is going to get this car for his birthday present and rightfully so that scares the **** out of them.

Honestly this all goes back to Nader holding GM accountable for the manner in which people drive their cars.

So why discourage track use?
Show me a manufacturer that doesn't. If you don't come back from a track day with something messed up, you probably were jsut doing parade laps. Track days are massively stressful on a car and it breaks parts, sometimes to and beyond the point of abuse. If I abuse soemthing and it breaks, thats my fault not Nissan's.

 

If you include the C5Z the reliability rate is very good even though most of the T1 motors are built, for reliability, almost everyone is rebuilt.

It's the C6Z's and more than a few stock ones have given up the ghost.


As for the GT-R, not every manufacturer discourages track usage, that is nonsense. They discourage racing, but not drivers education. You can get pre track inspections at most any Porsche dealer, that's not exactly discouraging to me. Nissan wont just will exclude warranty coverage for failures caused by tracking, but I have yet to see any manufacturer try to void the whole warranty because of one problem, and that language does not just say failures related to track, it says if you drive on a track or airstrip, which means parade laps or anything. This is not normal manufacturer legal language.

And show me any other manufacturer that states you cannot dyno your car........


One does not have to be a GT-R expert to know when they are reading a crappy contract between two parties. Not to mention questionable tactics about what fluids are being used on the cars. To suggest that one has to be driving at the limit on the street to want the VDC off is crazy. If Nissan had any sense they would just make it so it couldn't be turned off or if it were the car would only use 1-3 since I don't know of any car that needs 5th gear to get out of snow. Either way, there are better ways to go about this than what Nissan is doing.

 

Not sure why you hate the GTR so much. It's about $80k car, it's not the car for the average person. The people that own them enjoy these cars and expect to pay. Just like any other expensive car.

For the average person that want's an affordable sports car, there is the Corvette. It's a great car for the money and service is reasonable.

There are plenty of cars and choices for different people and their needs.

For me and many GTR owners...we appreciate what Nissan did with the car. I am sure many of the GTR owners have owned and still own a variety of cars that they can compare it too. The worst thing is when you have a brand loyal cheerleader trying to make themselves feel better. This may not apply to you but there are plenty of people out there that are like that.

 

I'm far from brand loyal. I love all kinds of cars and have owned all kinds, when it comes to comparisons I do pick sides occasionally, you know like either you were a circuit city man or a best buy man, a bmw man or a mercedes man, corvette man or viper man etc etc. I used to be on corvette side till the corvette tuning industry bit me in the butt. I still love corvettes, I just don't think the Z06 is as reliable as some would want you to think, I know of three people myself that have had stock or slightly modded Z06's blow motors, and have read of several more.

I've never liked the GT-R because of the inception of it. Everything was rumors and speculation (7:15 anyone), lies and deception, which Nissan has done before. And now everything is coming to light. Little of my problem has had to do actually with the car, if you want to take the chance on a car that can't go hard for long periods of time without lots of warning lights with questionable warranty and sneaky launch control, that's your problem. But when the media grabs hold and makes a mockery sportsmanship with lap comparison drifting with smoking tires and downright pure b.s. then I take offense. And the arguements with the various forms of fanboys has only made that grow and grow. This bitter rivalry goes back over a year, and the constant influx of fanboys posting threads in places they shouldn't be just made it worse than it should be.