Monaro, I think you better 'throw in the towel'. You're on your own on this subject. All the evidence and facts are against you.

 

What evidence are you talking about? Where are the mid 7:20 figures that would make me throw the towel? At the moment the majority of tests has the GTR pegged further down the ladder.

One post ey, tell me whats happening on the Nissan forum?

Your getting desperate if your going to start using a non Zr1 car.

As copared with Nissan and dusts on the track excuse?

 

Monaro, what's your best reason as to why SportsAuto could only get 7:38 from the ZR1?

 

Maybe its not fast enough.

Still, a 7:41 and a 7:38 for the ZR1 coupled with being a harder car to drive/master indicates that this is just cratching the surface. The GTR on the other hand has had many goes already.

 

Well, that method is directly related to the GT-R's time.

Why is HvS's time 11 secs more than Nissan's and 12 secs more than Chevy's?

According to this math - Chevy had a ringer more so than Nissan. When will you just drop this? Both theories sound rediculous.

Either that or the driver in the ZR-1 practiced IN THAT CAR!

And the driver in the GT-R practices IN THAT CAR!

 

Really? Sport Auto had many goes already in the GT-R? How many?

So now the ZR-1 is a harder car to master?

(I believe I agree with you that the ZR-1 is harder to drive, but I differ because I believe they are equally as hard to master (perhaps the GT-R is even harder to master, because one has to relearn typical driving lines, throttle use, etc...)

 

But wasn't it either you or HeavyChevy who said that Professional drivers - especially HVS can extract the best from ANY car within a few laps?

So, it must be that the ZR1 that SportAuto acquired was a dud and is not fast enough. But the data showed that the ZR1 was 12 km/h faster than the GTR down the straight and recorded 1.6g max compared with the GTR's 1.45g max on the turn. With stats like that, it surely cannot be a dud then.

Maybe HVS was sick and could not operate the ZR1 to its potential? But that would compromise the testing procedure, and knowing HVS and sportsauto, they wouldn't allow that to happen.

Maybe HVS suffered a cardiac arrest halfway through the test, but then recovered a few sec later and completed the test? But then, he would've abandoned the test because it was not fair.

No, i think that HVS had a 'micro sleep' during the lap timing. He woke up 12 seconds later, but didn't realize that he had been sleeping that long and thus completed the lap in 7:38 instead of 7:26. That is the best explanation i can think of. Agree?

 

Except we have documented and video proof of the Land Motorsport Porsche crashing at precisely the same point (entry to Adenauer-Forst) where Suzuki gets severely crossed up in the GT-R...oops! His steering inputs are also less frantic in the earlier videos.

That's not desperate at all. Corvette layouts are the same, the ergonomics and controls are the same. The ZR1 has benefit of more progressive tire slip, better suspension behavior over bumps, better steering rack and transmission quality than the Z06 that was tested.

From edmunds.com:
"for all its badass credentials, its power output of a hydroelectric dam and its stunning production-car lap record at the Nürburgring Nordschleife, the ZR1 doesn't really seem to want to kill you all that bad.
...the ZR1 has stuff like traction control and stability control. But this is about more than traction and stability control systems. The 505-hp Corvette Z06 also has these same well-tuned systems, yet we have it on good authority that the Z06 still wants us dead. Corvette Chief Engineer Tadge Juechter euphemistically refers to this particular Z06 trait as 'itching for a fight all the time.' We note that 'fight' is at a different location, yet on the same continuum of violence as 'homicide.'
We did stuff both intentionally and accidentally in the supposedly fearsome ZR1 that a twitchy Z06 would have made us badly regret. The ZR1 is more forgiving than Eliot Spitzer's wife, or Kwame Kilpatrick's wife, or Bill...possibly you get the point.
Badly misjudge your entry speed to a corner — which you will do often despite the ZR1's gigantic Brembo-supplied carbon ceramic brakes — and the ZR1 can be coaxed through a corner without a requisite trip through the grass/sand trap/7-Eleven store. The ZR1's rear end slips wide (another thing you will do frequently in the ZR1) under the oppressive force of 604 pound-feet of torque, but you'd have to be driving in Herman Munster's boots to really screw up too badly. Or at least, the ZR1 will give you the opportunity to reconsider your dunderheaded ways before punishing you for them. Everything happens fast in the ZR1 but progressively and predictably so. That includes the rate at which the driver's confidence builds.
these Michelins break traction so smoothly and progressively that they alone take 60 percent of the fear out of driving fast in this car."

R&T:
"Due to its combination of GM's Magnetic Ride Control suspension and ZR1-specific Michelin Pilot Sport PS2 tires, the Super Vette has the neutral, positive-at-the-limit handling we always wished the Z06 possessed. You still need to be quick with your counter-steering in the ZR1, because with all those horses, big, intentional powerslides are just a judicious throttle prod way, but the car's limits are higher and snap-oversteer tendencies far less a factor."

C&D:
"Where the Viper has tons of rear-end grip, the Corvette dances around the front wheels in a progressive, easily modulated manner. The steering is livelier than that of other Corvettes and loads up nicely with cornering forces."
"The Z06...is hairy at the limit. We’ve said it before, but the combination of light-switch oversteer, instant breakaway from the Goodyear tires, and a slight numbness in the steering makes for a ride that’s like one of those giant roller coasters: alternately so scary and exhilarating that you’re not sure whether you enjoyed the experience.
The ZR1 is a far more sanitary device, despite going 2.1 seconds faster per lap than the Z06. It feels softer than the Z06, which gives the driver more warning of incipient breakaway, and the Michelin tires are much more progressive when they relinquish grip. Plus, the steering has more feel."

Paul Horrell of TopGear:
"There's fancy electronics in the ZR1's chassis. The stability controls do a silky smooth job of containing your goof-ups, and if you drive properly they'll let you use pretty much the car's full scope. In fact, in competitive mode, it's on for fairly wide-angle second-gear drifts.
The turn-in is accurate and measured, the roll well-contained, the mid-corner balance as deft as a plate-spinner.
The traction out of the bends is remarkable too, though if you start taking liberties with all that power, the tail end will graciously, but firmly, point it out."

Autocar:
"At its limit, it'll nudge into understeer but can be pushed/bunged into a slide that's easier to hold than in either the Porsche (fast 911) or the Ferrari (599). Its engine-dominated slidey nature is closer to an Aston DBS's. It steers positively, too."


It's clearly easier to approach the ZR1's limits than the Z06's. So why isn't HvS any closer to the claimed GM time for the ZR1?

 

Up to 6 pages. You all are getting there.

Peter

 

^ lol! Imagine how many fewer pages there'd be, if HvS just simply matched GM's claim.

The irony is HvS is off by more than the same margin of the claim by Nissan for the GT-R.

Shouldn't we be talking about GM's cheating with a ringer now? Or should everybody else without any proof of Nissan's times (although clearly recorded now), shut the hell up?

Or is it ok for HvS to be off with the ZR-1, and not the GT-R under the exact same testing method?

 

http://www.nagtroc.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=33592

Spread the wealth.

Peter

 

Where do you think I got the scan of the article from?

 

Dont worry Jasper and co, the ZR1 WILL put down a far better time, afterall its only had two cracks at the ring (one if you discount the aborted 7:41), when it does im coming back with a vengence .

I dont know about you but I still hold that the GTR has set its ultimate non factory lap, the ZR1 can only get better.

 

I don't doubt it. But I also don't discount that the GT-R would also net a better time. And I think this is the major point of the disagreement.

First experience in the GT-R for HvS (7:50 something), second 7:38. Why the 12+ sec difference?

You ask to throw away the 7:41, and suspect that it can run better than a 7:38.

So you think that HvS can run the same lap time (after a few laps) as somebody with thousands of hours behind the wheel of a GT-R and possibly as much on THAT track in THAT car?

I find that laughable.

 

So my question is, is the GTR or is it not the accesible supercar that Nissan keeps saying it is. When it was convenient to the Nissan camp to use the GTR's accessiblity as to the reason why it ran with other much more powerful cars they did, but now it seems the car is as difficult to drive at the limit as the RWD 605 lb ft of torque ZR1.....so which is it?

You guys are insane if you think an AWD car with 430 lb ft of torque is as difficult around the " Ring " as a RWD car with 605 lb ft of torque. Most race cars don't have near that amount of torque! I just feel like sometimes the Nissan guys use whats convenient to them when justifying the Nissan times at the " Ring ".