Sticky tires can be less progressive than less sticky tires. And once they let go, they can be more abrupt at regaining traction. Jethro Bovingdon noticed this; he has driven the car. You haven't.
The GT-R is also considerably heavier than those other cars; it's not going to be as responsive to driver input as they are. This is compounded by the overall higher CoG. The other cars should respond like go-karts by comparison.
The GT-R isn't AWD all of the time.
A Formula One car also has tons of electronics, sticky tires, and paddleshifters. Does that mean it's easier to drive than a Yugo?

There is nothing about Suzuki's video that suggests it's an easy car to drive in that manner either. Ask yourself: if it's so easy to adopt that style, why doesn't anyone else do it? Did you see The Stig's practice in-car lap? It was fairly messy: under and oversteer in the same corner, massive multiple corrections, nearly losing it in a couple of corners, crossed up and into the grass near the end.
Show me a 997 Turbo or LP640 being driven in the same manner.

That's contrary to what numerous people who have actually driven the car will say.

Just like any other rear-engined Porsche, is what some of them are saying.
And you have zero experience in driving the GT-R. I would put more faith in those writers, racers, and owners who have driven it over you obvious bias anyday. When it comes to what the GT-R can do, you are every bit a magazine driver as anyone else in this thread. You have absolutely ZERO moral authority. Except you have a curious denial of the wealth of knowledge by those who actually have 1st-hand experience at taking the GT-R to its limit. Then again, like monaroCountry, you believed Suzuki's GT-R hit 290 kph instantaneously at Schwedekruez. LMFAO. I would have figured someone with so much track knowledge could read that right the first time. Guess not.
Is it common knowledge that during oversteer, you should MASH THE GAS????

 

monaroCountry said it:
"I would rate HvS, Alain Prost, WR...heck even Chris Harris as better driver than the once cashed up pay F1 back marker Suzuki."
https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...3-post100.html

He's also mentioned numerous times that HvS has more 'Ring experience. For example, when talking of Andy Guelden:
"That particular driver basically grew up driving around the Nurburgring and would most likely know the track far better than Suzuki. HvS is a nother different story, he along with Walter R would be the two most experienced around the track."
https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...2-post361.html

The implication is as follows:

Driver A
3000 'Ring laps
8 'Ring laps in a GT-R

Driver B
1500 'Ring laps (only half as many 'Ring laps as Driver B)
1500 'Ring laps in a GT-R (more than 180x's the experience as Driver B)

By monaroLogic, Driver A will definitely lap the 'Ring with the GT-R in the same time as Driver B...because he knows the track better.

 

Nope. Learn to read. You are missing a basic understanding of English or the ability to make comparative judgements.


The more I hear form germeezy, heavychevy, and mC, the more I get the feeling that if a car isn't as difficult to drive as a ZR1, it must therefore be easy to drive. There is nothing in between. It's as if someone has programmed their perception of 'ease/difficulty of driving' into binary bits.
What no one is addressing is: if the ZR1 is easier to drive than the Z06 (which it is based on numerous drive reports), then why isn't HvS any closer to GM's claim in the ZR1 than he was with the Z06? After all, he should be able to extract the absolute maximum out of any car. ANY CAR.

 

With zero experience driving a GT-R.
That's not at all what I'm saying. I'm simply saying that experience in the GT-R, will make him more profficient in a GT-R. I didn't say anything else. I never said the GT-R "is so much more difficult to drive at the limit". I said it is just as difficult as any other car - with the POSSIBILITY of being slightly more difficult because of the different driving style that is used. POSSIBILITY...

 

I know and HAVE EXPERIENCED the progression of tires breaking loose, still nothing a pro driver can't handle, being as they are a pro and all and have driven on slicks which give no warning and snap away. Stop talking about repsonsiveness as if you actually know what it means.

An F1 car has 800 hp and little tires and weighs 1300 lbs. The difficulty in driving an F1 car is the speeds in which you travel and putting 800 hp to the ground with little in terms of weigh resistance. HARDLY the same as driving a GT-R or any GT car. The car is also majority reliant on Aero grip where ANY GT car will be more reliant on Mechanical grip. Open wheel driving is already more difficult than GT driving to begin with, regardless of the drivetrain or electronics. Notice F1 cars no longer have traction control. They don't have AWD either. And they sure don't have VDC off that will void the warranty.


The electronics in F1 cars are cooling and monitoring systems, brake bias controls that the DRIVER adjusts, torque controls that the DRIVER adjusts. Not electronic driver aids that will kick in when he messes up, or that turn the wheels and apply brakes for him. Get your facts straight.


Have you watched an F1 race? How is it that you see all kinds of different drivers in different Chassis' with different driving styles, ALL going within a fraction of a second of each other? WHY? Because there is ALWAYS more than one way to be fast.

The only thing that people are saying is that the car doesn't drive itself. Not ONE person has said it's more or as difficult at the limit as any of the other cars. NOT ONE!!!


LOL, well isn't that the teapot calling the kettle black. If you read this thread you'd think you'd actually driven a GT-R, but paying close attention to your verbage shows that you haven't. So your misunderstanding of others quotes means nothing at all. My experience counts for something at least.

You don't MASH the gas during oversteer, the common knowledge is that you maintain throttle maybe increase or decrease a tad depending on which way the back end is heading. And that is drivetrain specific. The only kind of car you mash the gas in an oversteer moment is a FWD one.

 

Well you have ZERO experience driving the GT-R at the limit, which makes two of us. In the only experience you have the GT-R is EASIER to drive than all of it's competitors even according to everyon with experience in the car, so your experience is useless in this topic. And since Suzuki is the only person who can drive the GT-R at the limit, only one person knows what that feels like and that's him. So he's the only on that can compare that limit and the limit of any other car, which we have no idea if he has. (Sarcasm off)



Since the other test drivers limits were at around mid 7:40's why didn't Suzuki teach them the limits too?




There is nothing more difficult about driving the GT-R. End of story.

 

I said:
You replied:
I didn't say that I had experience driving the GT-R at its limits. I simply said you have zero experience in the GT-R - at the limits or otherwise. You added words, that I didn't say.

And about your perception of oversteering and then flooring it through the oversteer, that's exactly what I had to learn. It's rather odd, but when the car starts to oversteer, push the throttle harder. You'll never guess what you do when the car understeers...

 

Jasper, I know that but the point of contention here is the GT-R being driven at the limits. You say it is as difficult at the limits and I say no way. Your experience driving/owning one means nothing in that regard if you haven't driven at the limits which is the only place the difficulty applies in this case. Up to 80/90% according to EVERYONE it's pretty easy. So your opinion on the matter is as worthless as mine despite your experience.

Get my drift?

In fact, a little oversteer at the limit is not some terrifying thing, it's pretty common for performance cars, so all of Guibo's press clippings are drivel and responses to the cars critics, not simple evaluations, or even comparisons to other cars that may be challenging to drive. AWD is AWD, and AWD cars understeer, the GT-R does so as well, this likely means there is power going to the front wheels despite Nissan's advertising, hate to put salt in you guys kool-aid, but if it looks like a duck........

 

I know I wasn't speaking with unbiased people when they say the cars myriad electronic aids are a plus to the driving experience. The same people that say the GTR's amazing traction and computer drivetrain make it easy to extract the best times out of the car. Which is the reason allegedly that it was within a few seconds of the ACR, CGT, ZR1, and CCX around the " Ring ". But now as they see it fit to defend the car its apparently as difficult to drive as a 605 lb ft RWD car at the limit, if not " POSSIBLY " more so.

The " Ring " is a track that people die on, it does not suffer fools gladly and you guys are telling me that somehow its not easier to drive in a car that uses its AWD to be more forgiving and is as difficult to drive as its RWD competiton with no stability control or forgiveness if you get it wrong. In my humble opinion the GTR is an example of what wrong with todays cars a car with extremely high computer controlled limits and non organic handling.

Do you know what technology and advancements are? The Mclaren MP4 is an example of it, the Ferrari 458 Italia , the Lotus Evora cars that are lightweight in spite of todays crippling weight due to weight creep and safety equipment. In todays world where even M3's weight over 3,600 lbs and sports car commonly weigh close to 4,000 lbs the GTR is not the advancement you fanbois proclaim it to be.

The GTR is simply an innovative but different way to do things, please don't think that because Nissan chose to build the car that way it makes the morons who build RWD, lightweight cars a bunch of behind the times Neanderthals! No one that defends the GTR is a pro race driver or has personally done a 7:27 lap so your no more experts on driving one 10/10ths at the " Ring " as any of us are.

OK Rant over, I am getting off my soap box before I get negative repped into oblivion. I apparently have some idea what I am talking about since all the Nissan fanboi's get so butt hurt and neg rep me so much.

 

I see your point - but discrediting an owner with any experience is discrediting your non-experience even more so.

You always know what percentage of power is being applied to the front, and when it happens. There is understeer when turning in, but there is oversteer after that (especially those who drive with VDC-off). This has been stated before, this AWD is not like any other. The center diff changes 1000's of times a second. Again, if you ever drove the GT-R, you'd know exactly what I'm talking about.

This has been taken waaayyyy off-topic. So.

GM - 7:26
Nissan - 7:26

HvS - 7:38 for both

Why exactly is one time more accurate than the other?

 

Jasper from posting with you before you usually are pretty open minded and knowledgeable. That being said what part of Nissan has lied in the past do you not get? GM nor Porsche is in question here for telling lies about their " Ring " times it's Nisssan who basically invented the " Ring " time hoopla and lied as far back as the R33 whose repuation is questionable.

I or no one on this forum were responsible for Nissan's tuned R33 run and the subsequent lies they have told about " Ring " times since then.

 

No one that attacks the GTR is a pro race driver or has personally done a 7:27 lap so your no more experts on driving one 10/10ths at the " Ring " as any of us are....

No one that defends the Porsche is a pro race driver or has personally done a 7:27 lap so your no more experts on driving one 10/10ths at the " Ring " as any of us are....

No one that defends the ZR-1 is a pro race driver or has personally done a 7:27 lap so your no more experts on driving one 10/10ths at the " Ring " as any of us are....

germeezy - I couldn't agree more with your logic. Why can't people simply say,"Wow, good time" and move on?

 

I agree between Michael Jackson, Kanye West, and the GTR I am tired of the controversy!

 

I wasn't a Nissan fan back when the R33 came out. I didn't care about it then... I was all about American muscle. When I was stationed in Okinawa, Japan, I learned what a Skyline GT-R was. At that point (within the first 30 minutes of learning about a Skyline GT-R), I learned that there was no such thing as a 280HP GT-R. That was never a secret. Only people who couldn't wrap their heads around a number thought this was a big deal.

Americans say - Nissan cheated with a car that had more than the advertised 280HP.

People everywhere else say - Wow - look at that great performance.

Without getting off-topic too much more - seriously - HvS gets the same time in two different cars - this has NOTHING to do with Nissan's claims for anything anymore.

 

One simple word. HATERS.