When you heel toe/rev match before a corner, what is the engine doing after you've successfully changed to a lower gear and on your brakes? Nothing? No. If It's in gear and the clutch is fully engaged. It's either A. Accelerating B. Maintaining Speed or C. Slowing you down aka Compression/Engine Braking.

If you're coming up on a corner and you're slowing down and maintaining optimal gear position while while braking, Lets say from 5th gear to 2nd. Are you braking with the clutch disengaged and just rev matching into 2nd when your car is moving slow enough to do so, then entering the turn? Or are you rev matching each gear while slowing down? If you're doing the latter, you are compression braking whether you realize it or not.

 

omg...okay, i've heard the term about the dead horse.....but i can't say i've actually even seen it! lol!!

 

c'mon expert - let's see those lap times.

When you're slowing down via heel and toe - your foot is on the brake. The BRAKES are doing the work.

 

Umm, no. Compression braking is using the compression of the engine to slow you down. It implies that you are down-shifitng and increasing the RPM of the engine with NO added fuel or air. I do agree with you that being in a lower gear will slow you down, but that isn't compression braking. In my vast track experience (yeah right ), if I'm in 5th and need to go to 2nd, I'm definitely not going to row through the gears. Maybe 5th to 3rd to 2nd or straight to 2nd.

Probably splitting hairs, but I think what you are saying and what everyone else is saying is probably the same. You would not shift, on the track, from 5th to 4th without rev matching, right?

 

And what's your engine doing at 6,000 RPM's with the clutch fully engaged while you're braking and your foot off the gas? Nothing? having a Cup-O-Tea?

The main reason you're taught not to in driving schools is simple. If you do it incorrectly, you will unsettle the car. If you are able to do it smoothly and consistently, it will work out well.

If my logic is completely flawed, show me where I'm completely wrong. I'm not too proud to admit when I'm wrong. But don't try to discount what I'm saying based solely on the fact that I haven't been to a lapping day. I am a huge auto enthusiast and not a complete imbocile.

There is an obvious difference the methods to our cars madness. I won't go out on a limb and say that I'm a phenomel and great driver of an E36 M3 as there are plenty of people around here that can smoke me. Just know that I'm a very competent and capable driver (who has learned from his many mistakes) and I have been on several spirited drives with members here. Jason, Larry and Jody included.

But this thread has gone way too off kilter (like most threads here lol), largely because I'm going against the grain.Maybe I was giving irrelevant advice to her car and if I was doing so, I appologize for tainting jody's education on the subject. I don't know 911's like my M3, but I do know that it's a typical and common thing to do on M3's (it's even encouraged in our owners manuals)

(PS. the best thing about your S2K is the engine position behind the front axles, they truely are amazing cars)

(PSS. I'll make a new thread with my lap times this spring for those who are interested, My goal is to get down to 1:45 by summer, which is reasonable for my car I believe)

 

Mitchell -

I'm just having a little fun w/ you in the same way you were busting Jay's *****.

Let's just say that compared to the contributions of a few other posters in this thread - you don't know what you're talking about.

Certainly there is an element of engine braking involved - but it's not the optimal way to slow the car.

You are correct in that smoothness in distributing the weight transfer of the car is paramount
.
You would not be correct in saying that compression braking is a big factor in all of that.

The S2000 is an amazing car - I just wish it had the kind of grunt the C2S has.

At 6000rpm - my S2000 engine is just waking up.

When I'm braking and the engine is spinning @ 6000rpm the brakes slowing the car and transferring weight to the front of the car. Compression braking may be taking place - but the brakes overwhelm any compression braking that is taking place.

Brake power > compression braking power. Understood?

BTW - I have no idea what an imbocile is. I *do* know what an imbecile is.

 

Your not going to hit on the brake peddle while also blipping the throttle in a stock Boxster, not consistently or safely anyways. The peddle angle and overall design does not lend itself to it. The best thing to do is to get down to the proper turn entry speed and do a quick little let off of the brake to hit the throttle to smooth out the gear shift. You should not be shifting the gear through the corner though; you will be set up in the proper gear before the corner starts to bend. Keep the car as neutral as Switzerland, no sudden movements. Good driving in an underpowered car is better then poor driving in an overpowered car. At the end of the day your lap may not be quickest over all but if it keeps improving on a personal level your doing great.

As to the whole debate going on, in certain situations different % of engine braking come in handy. If you get too deep into a corner and know you’re in for a ride using a higher percentage of engine force over break force and straighting the corner will keep you out of the wall. This is the same concept you use when driving in the snow. Watch a JGTC driver and you will see how neutral they keep the forces applied to the car. Degrees of lock, perfect braking. Where they or any other driver make up the most time is by carrying speed through corners, and getting back onto the power as soon as possible when exiting a corner. Being smooth and in the zone is the best feeling a driver can have and will also be when the fastest times are put down.

Honestly this may sound stupid, but play lots of simulator games. I prefer Gran Turismo and have so many hours at the Nordschleife it’s not funny. When you get used to a car it becomes easy to balance it on the edge of adhesion no matter what the road is doing. Watch lots of racing. F1, DTM, Dutch Supercar challenge and the Austrailan v8 supercars are my favorites. When I see Michael Schumacher, or Kimi drive I am seriously in awe. It’s easy to look at a sport shown on TV and say that is easy to do. But if you watch those two drivers, there will be no moments in which you think you could have done anything better.

The Boxster is the safest car to have through the corners, not too much power (keep you out of trouble) it is very neutral and will not suddenly break traction on you. If it does go wrong it tends to spin like a top in place rather then *** over end backwards. The balance is key to all of this. Corner balancing will only improve this already well set car. If I had your car, the next mods would be pss9s, peddles and maybe try the stock sized wheels/tires. You will have a big grin on your face the first time you drive it like that. Even more so then if it had 100 extra bhp. Being pressed back in your seat is cool, but being thrown out of it sideways is much better. Oh yeah, add a set of Euro gt3’s to that list! There is no one perfect way to drive and everyone has their own technique and style. A driving course with a personal instructor is a good experience. I go driving with a few friends and we switch off as passenger and driver in the same car. It’s great to get another perspective of what your doing right and wrong. I personally don’t like instructors, just because I don’t like being told what to do. I would rather just go driving, you don’t get better unless you actually get out there. Instructional courses are however a great substitute for a wrecked car. Look at what RUF offers.

 

Btw, that horse beating avi, that’s the guy from office space with a horse in place of the copy machine right? Mitchel, you crack me up! Its cool you work on your own cars. That is another great way to learn to drive faster. If you know how the machine you are using works, it easy to become proficient with it. That is how Ron Dennis taught Hamilton. He had to learn how the car was put together and the theories of how it worked. You weren’t moonlighting for Porsche were you? I heard in another thread about a beer top found in a strut mount and some unhooked subs on a new car from the factory.

 

All these E-advices are only going to make things more confusing...

I would take the performance driving class first. If there's any question ask your own instructor and note everything in a log book. Then go on here for more discussion....

 

Ironically - that is probably the best advice in this thread.

 

+1! Score one for the good dentist.

 

I never said that I was an expert on driving around a race track let alone PR. I personally don't plan to drive on that track anytime soon. Lig is right here. I agree with the points he brought up.

I agree also with Vince too. You're going to just get more confused by listening to all of us here (honestly). It'd be best to learn from an instructor on an actual track.

 

The funny thing is that I did that. I drove a lot of driving simulation games and then I had a chance to experience the Nurbringring twice for real. I can tell you that they're NOTHING alike.

 

lol! well, don't worry about confusing me. that's not too hard to do. i will definately be taking some instruction. but, it's nice to get an idea of what everyone does/thinks, and why. or, what the majority do/don't do. it kind of paints the "big picture" for me and gives me a broad understanding of driving performance cars in general.

i'll be signing up this spring at proformance and taking some more PCA driver's skills as well. I figure, the more pracitice on an autoX track (which, as jeff mentioned....isn't all about heel/toe) but it's still skills practicing. and then, i'll plan on taking a one or two day class at PR.

then, one day, i'll be just like johnny speedracer! wink*

 

oh....i have learned from pretty much 99% of you guys.....do NOT use your engine to slow down. use the breaks....with the exception of the corners.

a good tip!