Where do we get in line for the bailout money ???

 

^^^ Sorry Jim they don't give $ to Dicks!

 

They gave some to AIG..

 

OK I stand corrected!

 

I think you pretty much nailed it. Obama was the feel good president riding how much the previous president stunk. The excuses are going to start running out soon, and the "he was set up to fail" will start ringing in. If spreading the wealth is the answer, then innovation will be stifled. Everyone will want to be a bum waiting for their government check payed for by those that haven't figured it out yet. Unions build on the same mentality. When your pay increases are seniority based, there is no motivation to innovate or be productive. Is this really the mentality we want guiding this country? I guess so, we voted for it.

 

Yeah....
What P.J. Said.

Very well put, I am too tired from working my *** off to articulate what these bozo's are doing to this great nation.

Gotta go, gotta work to pay for the unemployed, uneducated, sit at home on their azz guitar-hero fu**ing super star that I am unwittingly sponsoring.

Cheers,

Brian

 

i voted Obama and would again. Obama inherited a problem that's been unregulated for years. Most likely back to G Bush Sr. Guys you can't blame the guy trying to fix the fu$kups from years passed. You have to hire the Smartest man for the job and hope to hell they figure out what to do to fix it. 700 billion bailout was happening if Obama or Idiot (mccain) got elected America didn't have a choice.

The little 4% tax increase PJ to the upper class won't change the spending habits of them. Who really cares about 40k per million over 250k earned? This isn't the problem because 40k isn't that much.....

The problem in this instance was said earlier. The UAW. GM was never very smart but the UAW has run them into the ground because "we" Americans buy too many cars and created such demand for their product that they originally couldn't keep up. No one seemed to notice when all of a sudden they were producing 35% more cars then needed until it was obviously too late.

These Unions are even local. Boeing gets a yearly reminder that Unions control them. Possibly with some federal backing and union destruction they could compete on a fair playing field with airbus. Just my 2 cents

The only way to bailout these companies (and PJ Ford will be asking for cash soon) is to get rid of the UAW and their massive monthly dole. No other way. Bankruptcy does this. Bankruptcy stops "we" Americans from spending another nickle on failing companies.

But hey keep sending the bailout money until my fricken Camaro is done. Hopefully next month.......

 

Very eloquently put and so true. Compared to Unions, corporate execs look like Angels.



The primary reason is that they get to write-off everything NOW when they need the tax break.



I was a huge Obama fan. Happened a little bit prior to his speech at the RNC, and then when I heard his speech it really made me pay attention. His oratory skills are superb, intelligence obvious and his desire to help the country sincere. I even think his integrity is beyond reproach.
I am proud to say that I didn't vote for him though. Once his energy policy was revealed, it was clear that no matter how attractive a package he presented, at his core he was severely misguided. McCain's energy policy looked like I had written it for him ... pure bloody poetry IMNSHO.

I've wanted him to succeed though -- I really have. The "compensation" for him getting in office for me was health-care reform. Getting out of Iraq is an ambivalent issue for me, but maybe that's for the best.

What really stunned me though, was his complete and utter lack of tact in handling our must valued and trusted ally in the world right now -- the United Kingdom. The UK gave the sitting President a bust of Winston Churchill after 9/11 with an inscription of sympathy and support for the US after the attacks. During the recent visit by Prime Minister Gordon Brown to the US, President Obama handed it back and told the UK "here, have it back - we don't like it". Then there was the traditional gift exchange. PM Brown handed Obama a hand-crafted ornate pen-holder made from timbers from the HMS Gannet - the sister ship to HMS Resolute that had provided the wood for the desk that sits in the oval office. Special thought and symbolism applied here since the Gannet was a Victorian anti-Slave ship. The gift to the UK ? A set of hastily purchased 25 DVDs of "American Classics" .... that won't play in the UK due to Hollywood's insistence on a region-code embedded in all DVDs sold in US. Um, thanks ? Then there were some other issues with the UK press not being welcome at the joint press conference, the UK flag not being displayed alongside the US flag ... both traditionally performed. This snubbing, taken as a snub of the whole country, not of just the PM, is an example of extremely poor judgement of a very close ally in a world where the USA needs all the allies it can get.
Well, at least he's being nice to those nice government people in Iran. I'm sure they will offer a very "special relationship" indeed...

 

The extra 4% is not a lot to the wealthy... sure
$250K per household is not "wealthy" IMHO... it is not bad but I do not think it is truly wealthy.

36% of $250K is $90,000
40% of $250K is $100,000
a difference of $10,000
where is the extra $10K going? Bailouts for big corps, social services that I will not partake in, to help people that spent too much on houses they could not afford, etc... No thank you...

36% of $249,999 is $89,999.64 -- so you actually take home more if you make less... interesting...

So you make $250,000 and you pay out $100,000K in federal taxes
now you have $150,000 to spend/save/invest/burn etc
No wait, there is no such thing as double taxation right?
how about paying property taxes with after tax dollars?
how about paying capital gains tax with after tax dollars?

How about providing what are in effect hand outs (health care, social services, public education, etc.) to illegals that are for the most part not paying taxes...

Let me also remind you that the mortgage mess/deregulation was created under Clinton, not Bush senior, because every American should have a house right? Another democrat attempt at pitching the American dream to the middle or lower classes in exchange for votes. Get real...

In King County roughly 50% of your property taxes go towards local public education. Fine... No problem with that... we need an educated populace... So why not let the people who are not sending their children to public school to pay private school tuition with pre tax dollars? They are doing their share for the public schools... they are actually doing more as they are paying for services that they are not using... This I will never understand.

I do not mean to beat a dead horse about taxes, but for a household to EARN $250K and have $100K of it eaten by a federal government and at least another $20K eaten by the local government is INSANE. You are left with $130K of real money for your household of on average 4 people... basic necessities (food, clothes, etc), tuition for your kids because the WASL challenged public school system is inadequate and teaching to the lowest common denominator, home maintneance, charity, savings, etc... and now your $130K is getting pretty thin... right about then that extra $10K in taxes you are paying is looking pretty good... but wait... here comes a tidal wave of inflation so now that $130K really feels like $75K because your $ is worth less and less...

Now Gregoire is going to start the state income tax becuase of a budget shortfall...

Where does it end?

universal healthcare is next -- own a business -- watch your health care costs triple... driving up your pricing... causing you to raise your prices... and now when I want to buy re-bar or you want to buy forklifts... we will be shopping in China to lower our costs to try and remain competitive.

Unions - do not get me started...simply an outdated model and I will leave it at that.

I do agree that the truly "wealthy"... the super rich so to speak, will still be spending...

I want Obama to be right... I want him to "save" this country from itself but I just do not understand how taking on a massive amount of debt, printing cash, and increasing taxes will "save us".... ultimately our debt will have to be paid back and we will be longing for 40% tax rates... When your business takes a hit, do you adjust by running up your debt level? No of course not... so why is this federal issue any different? In effect America has a debt to equity issue and it is getting worse in a hurry.

There is a growing disincentive to work hard for the "dream"... the tipping point is different for all of us in terms of throwing in the towel and getting in line for the hand out... but I believe that this option is gaining ground on the alternative.

Please do not think I am a right wing wacko -- let the gays marry (why should they have less rights than heteros?), keep abortion legal, teach responsible sex ed, stem cell research, stop debating intelligent design/creationism vs. evolution (waste of time)... focus on the real problems we are facing and deal with them in a fiscally responsible manner.

Oh and if Ford sells off Volvo like they are trying to do (and they should) then their hand will not be in your pocket for a little while longer...

This may not be the right forum for politics and of course I am fine to agree to disagree... I value the varied viewpoints and the healthy discourse.

Anyone have any thoughts on a flat tax? I have been giving it a lot of thought recently and I am having trouble understanding how it is not "fair". For example say federal income tax is a flat tax at 10%... a guy making $30K pays $3K and a guy making $100K pays $10K, so some may say that it is not fair because $3K out of the pocket of a $30K a year guy "hurts" more than the $10K out of the pocket of the $100K guy... I get that. Is that the chief objection? A flat tax, as a percentage, affects everyone equally does it not? As I mentioned before, I am not that smart... I do understand that a candidate that campaigns on a flat tax platform will never get elected (Steve Forbes) but for the sake of discussion, what are the chief objections to a flat tax?

How about some rep points? :-)
is that not the 6speed equivalent to "can I get a hell yeah?"
:-)

 

i haven't read it all but you only pay the 39% on a portion of your 250k PJ that's why I said 40% on every million over 250k.....effectively you will only pay 39% on about 50k of it. the rest is trickled down to nil

ok I'll keep reading your post now. damn you make me read more than my social studies teachers

 

No wait, that's not how it works. It's a stepped tax increase, so everybody pays the same percentage tax on the money earned. For example:

If the tax increase came at $250,000 mark, everyone making up to that amount would pay 36%, and anyone making more than that amount would pay 40% only on whatever they earned over $250,000. So if you made $300,000, you'd pay 36% on the first $250,000, and 40% on the last $50,000. You'd still take home more money if you made more.

Obviously there are a series of tax rate increases before you reach the 36% mark, I'm just showing my example above to clarify that you will never take home less money than someone that earned less than you.

http://www.moneychimp.com/features/tax_brackets.htm

 

flat tax doesn't work because even the republicans realize if they had a 15% flat tax that they would really miss the 25% of the top tax payers in the country. bring it on imho. i'll get some more cars.

you'd really see income taxes in all states if that happened.

i figure 50% of every dollar i earn goes to the government and I live with it.

who wants to buy volvo would be my question?

i'm also glad to hear your not completely right winged.......all that you've posted I'm left winged for. On paper I'm supposed to be a GBush lover..His warlord attitude and iq of 5 hurt his chances there.

 

you've read the chart wrong. i didn't really know where the 35% bracket started but it's stepped all the way up like I pointed out. You only pay the higher tax rate on the money earned over that tax rate.
so the bracket on your chart ends at 357k. so the top bracket is over that. I just used 250k as an example.

 

I know what I stated didn't match the chart exactly... I was just trying to explain the same thing using the example numbers previously state in the thread. You and I are in agreement, I'm just not explaining myself correctly.

 

Troy and Mark -- thank you for clearing up the "stepped tax issue"... this was not clear to me until know... sincerely. I am happily surprised and clearly uninformed :-( until now. My bad.

Yeah Mark -- I am not a right wing Christian conservative... just get a little touchy when I feel as if I am paying out a lot and getting very little in return. I also do not feel as if any of my presidential choices represent what I want... but I do understand that is the system we have and until I am ready to change it myself, I should probably stop complaining. But never stop questioning...

I still want my piece of the bailout/stimulus... and I do not think we can spend our way out of trouble. Amassing huge amonts of debt and printing cash just plain makes no real sense to me...
I think our government should be run like a business and lead by example... no-bid contracts are BS... Corp tax loopholes are a joke and I think Obama will close these in his first term.

50% of earned income to the government and you live with it... this is akin to my previous statement regarding laying back and enjoying the ride. To some degree I cannot blame you.

Thanks for the education

So no one likes flat tax because we will miss taxing the rich at a higher rate... the whole "top 1% pays 40% of the tax bill" idea... I get that... is that fair? Not is that right or wrong... but is it fair? Why, as a percentage of income, should one person pay more than another? Again I am just asking questions "out loud" so to speak... what is the anti-flat tax response to the fairness question when viewed as a percentage of income?

I am fully prepared to hear that this country needs money to run and the top 1% have it so we need to tax them at a higher percentage to pay the bills...

On an unrelated note -- I visited Ruf in Dallas the other day... wish I had a stimulus check in my pocket -- 997 RGT, 1995 BTR, 964 RCT, etc etc... nice shop and nice people :-)