928 successor (based on panamera platform)
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Did we really know or care if a 1973 911S was faster around a track than a Dino 246 Jaguar XKE, or 240Z? No not really. Did we care? No not really. What we did care about was that the track car [917] won on the track and the 911 was fun to drive on the street. The 911 was a 190 HP fun car. Everyone knew a 911 was a Porsche and a Porsche was a 911. Today a Porsche is a 911 or a Hatchback a sport Ute and who knows what next. Porsche doesn't need to build so many types of autos because they have VW money. [Ferrari has never yield to building a four door car or Sport ute. Why? Fiat money. And Fiat can build those.] As I've said before, VW will kill the Cayenne and Panamera. VW already has a Sports Ute. They have RR, They have Bugatti. Why did VW buy Porsche? Sports cars / GTs and Racing. I don't give a rats-*** how fast my GT3 will lap the 'ring. Question is what makes it unique to drive. Is it more fun to drive than a Nissan? I think so. Problem with the original 928 is that it didn't feel like a porsche. I owned one and it was a very good performing car that felt generic. And it wasn't pretty. It wasn't fun. It was just very good and very fast. My gt3 is also fast. Is it more enjoyable than my 73. No its not. It never becomes fun until I get moving Ring style. I don't. Its illegal. The old little 911? Hell Its fun at 40 MPH A shame because its become all about numbers. Thats why Nissan is a threat. We forgot about what makes these cars truly different. Do we know any longer? What is the difference between a GT3 and a GTR at 40 MPH? I'm rambling on. Thanks for listening. 
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The GTR is no threat to Porsche. People who buy Porsches do not cross shop GTR's. When the GTR first came out and all the BS was flying around, there were some Porsche owners who considered a GTR because they trusted what Nissan was telling them. Then it quickly became evident that Nissan was pulling another fast one. Launch control that voids the warrantee, blown trannys, overheating, a 'ring time that only the "god of F1 drivers" Suzuki-san could attain. There is a thread on this website where such a person has told HC that he was right all along about the GTR and is now getting rid of that very disappointing car. You get what you pay for-one saying that is so true. Porsche took their time and have now brought us a 2010 TT with a double clutch tranny that actually works and pulls 3 second 0-60 mph, and a 4 seater gt that does 0-60 in 3.3 seconds without voiding the warrantee. Nissan lies, Porsche flies.
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The 'ring is only one track. This could all change on a different track. Both these cars could be stomped by something else on another track. Does that mean anything to anyone? Say Laguna Seca. Why the hell do I care what it does at the Ring if I'm getting beat every weekend by a Lotus at Laguna. Why would those Ring times be important to me. Also, another car could kick my butt in 0-100 run. Another Autocrossing. How errogant is it to think that the Ring is some sort of standard. What is the measurement? If your car is faster on the 'ring than mine then really its only faster on that track. I'm not there. I don't care. It needs to work for me. I don't give a rats *** how it competes against the GTR on the ring. It needs be faster than a lotus at laguna or I'm going out and buying a lotus next week. Hell I could have some guy in 32 Ford highboy with a 427 beat me to the next stoplight. And now guess what, Yup...a 32 Ford is suddenly a faster car than my GT3. Boy those Ring times really helped.
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What I'm saying is that people who buy porsches have typically known how it works. Nissan needs to prove the GTR. They need those numbers. They have nothing else but those numbers at the Ring. Porsche has already proved the 911 works well enough. 45 years worth.
Last edited by vanquishv12; Nov 2, 2009 at 07:29 PM.
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Why is the GTR getting everybody's panties twisted? It's not as if the car is attacking your manhood. Not everybody who buys a GTR compares it to a Porsche... I certainly wouldn't. Not everybody can afford a 997TT either. It's faster than a lot of cars out there and I think that's good enough for most owners, regardless what the press claims or the LC warranty-thing.
Don't forget, there are a lot of Porsche owners who don't know, or give a rat's ***, about Porsche's history. They don't know anything about their involvement in Le Mans or other endurance series. All they see is a relatively expensive German car that isn't an MB or BMW. That 45 years' worth of development doesn't even cross their mind.
IMO my only significant knock on it (other than the looks) is that they brought a 996 TT to their test sessions. I wish they just developed their car from the ground up and not have to bring in a competitor's car as a basis.
... And back on topic; not really feeling this sketch. Maybe it could use the popup headlamps on the old 928. It'll increase the CoD enough such that the 911 still remains king.
Don't forget, there are a lot of Porsche owners who don't know, or give a rat's ***, about Porsche's history. They don't know anything about their involvement in Le Mans or other endurance series. All they see is a relatively expensive German car that isn't an MB or BMW. That 45 years' worth of development doesn't even cross their mind.
IMO my only significant knock on it (other than the looks) is that they brought a 996 TT to their test sessions. I wish they just developed their car from the ground up and not have to bring in a competitor's car as a basis.
... And back on topic; not really feeling this sketch. Maybe it could use the popup headlamps on the old 928. It'll increase the CoD enough such that the 911 still remains king.
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You brought up a good point about the 928. It is afterall simply a GT coupe version of the Panamera instead of an all new GT. If they're going to base it on something, why not the Carrara GT? What do you think? That would have made a nice mid engine coupe.
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I don't think they should base it off the GT... if they're going to base something off that it should probably be another half-million dollar supercar, probably w/ influence from the RS Spyders. It would seem odd to have a 928 successor have a totally different drivetrain layout.
It should still be a front-mounted V8 and be an alternative to the 599 and the DB9, but probably at a lower price.
It should still be a front-mounted V8 and be an alternative to the 599 and the DB9, but probably at a lower price.
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Really? ..chase after V8 Vantage / mercedes SL types is best? Why? I'm not saying they don't build a front engine GT. But I agree with you, it should fully retain its own look so it wont be viewed as anything else but a Panam 928 2 dr. coupe. [How could it not be such?] Why shouldn't they go head to head with Ferrari 458 / Gallardo / R8? Why doesn't porsche go there? Look at their product lineup. Hell thier OK with sport utes and Hatchbacks!! Why would a cheeper Carrera GT type product be wrong? They can always do the limited high end product. Problem is they'll need to sell VW on that deal and VW is already in the Veron thing at $1mil loss per car. And no one else is doing that $1 mil product anylonger. Well thats all not true -Aston has the One-77.
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BTW. I do track the cars. My old 911 had most of its early miles on the autobaun. I'm talking left lane driving. Thats why I bought it. My son says I drive the GT3RS to slowly when on public streets. I told him that unless were on the track, I'm always driving the damn thing to slowly! It hurts.
Last edited by vanquishv12; Nov 2, 2009 at 11:44 PM.
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Don't forget, there are a lot of Porsche owners who don't know, or give a rat's ***, about Porsche's history. They don't know anything about their involvement in Le Mans or other endurance series. All they see is a relatively expensive German car that isn't an MB or BMW. That 45 years' worth of development doesn't even cross their mind.
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Go and attend your local PCA DE and see how many new and old Porsches are there. The vast majority of Porsche owners know about it's racing heritage. You can't go to a Porsche dealership without being reminded either.
And one things for sure, there are a lot more people who know about Porsches racing heritage than any nurburgring times or C&D articles.
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Good point, HC. Another way to see just how many people appreciate Porsche's heritage is to go to a Rennsport Reunion. You will see thousands of owners and non-owners alike who appreciate what Porsche has accomplished in it's 60 short years. No other brand can seem to pull off a reunion this big. It is a spectatcular event. And, Porsche does not rest on it's laurels, just look at the success of the RS Spyder in ALMS and the various 997's in Grand Am and ALMS. Porsche is hardly sitting around stagnating. While Nissan was running the 'ring in the ringer GTR and other companies were engaging in horsepower wars, Porsche was engineering fast, beautiful sports cars that bring you power with low emmisions and good gas milage. I'd say that it looks like Porsche was and is looking ahead while others were and are looking backwards.
Last edited by USCCayman; Nov 3, 2009 at 07:41 AM.
