Track only: what base car to start with?

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Old Dec 4, 2006 | 10:26 AM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by tracktime
Thanks for that Evo link Chris. Wow, my head is spinning. Stroker kits, different turbos and, ecu reflashing, there's a lot of information there. If you were going to take a minimalist approach, what would you do to a stock Evo to improve it's performance?
If I was going to build an affordable track car, it would be an Evo w/a drop-in filter, turbo-back exhaust, boost controller, fuel pump, and a reflash. On the suspension/braking side, get some good coilovers (check w/John Mueller at RoadRace Chassis in SoCal - have him do the install/alignment if possible), and then get some 2-piece rotors w/good pads & fluid to reduce unsprung weight and improve stopping power. Finally, slap some Toyo RA-1s on there and have some fun. You're looking at about $1500 for the performance mods (worth about 60hp on an Evo IX at the wheels) and $2500 for the suspension brake mods.
 
Old Dec 4, 2006 | 03:30 PM
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Originally Posted by tracktime
More great advice, on the finnancial truth, of preparing a car for the track/racing Super D. There's a big difference between just putting together a car and, actually creating a competitive one. I had never even thought about the rental option, something else to serioulsy consider. Everybody wants their own car, set up just the way they like, but there are many logistical costs associated with that. A rental would definatly cut down on a lot of expenses.
If you rent, you'd employ track notes, just as with your personal car. You should have notes from the previous track visit with track temps/conditions, alignment settings, swaybar settings, tire pressures, etc. Then you'd just need to get the renting source to align before trackday, get your seat/harness adusted when you get to the track, and you should be in pretty good shape to start having fun. If you're racing seriously, try to start using at least some basic data acq. If you become familiar with a track, you can look at your data from a previous visit, then in practice sessions compare to the last visit and dial-in your driving as well as the car setup. Some sources who rent have MyChrons in the cars, and then you can capitalize on the renter for prep, track support, help with data, etc. Kind of like your own mini-team.

Another possibility is sharing costs on a car with a buddy (purchase/storage/maint/spares/upgrades/etc). This can work, but you both have to understand the "you break it, you buy it" program up front. And if there's a total loss, the driver at the time has to deal with it---just like when there's a sole owner. If you do this, have an agreement up front that covers the bases--you're in a small partnership and whether it's verbal or written, just get it done. Friendships have been lost over disagreements/assumptions that could've been avoided with good communication on the front end. The nice thing about sharing a car is that you two can pit for each other on trackdays and switch off run groups. Of course this doesn't work with true racing, as you'll have only the one car avail for the race.
 

Last edited by Super D; Dec 4, 2006 at 11:56 PM.
Old Dec 4, 2006 | 11:38 PM
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Personally I'd stay 100 miles from an Evo or STI - one of the aspects of a Porsche that is legendary is the durability of the vehicle. I wouldn't trust pounding the crap out of a Mitsubishi or Subaru (or even a Honda) on the track and trusting it to keep me safe. I want the most bulletproof car I can drive.
 
Old Dec 5, 2006 | 06:42 AM
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Originally Posted by teutonictrio
Personally I'd stay 100 miles from an Evo or STI - one of the aspects of a Porsche that is legendary is the durability of the vehicle. I wouldn't trust pounding the crap out of a Mitsubishi or Subaru (or even a Honda) on the track and trusting it to keep me safe. I want the most bulletproof car I can drive.
I hope you're kidding...

Both the Evo and STi components have been tested in the most brutal form of motorsport around. When I got my Evo and talked w/Rhys Millen about it, he said all it needed were steel suspension components in place of aluminum and it'd be ready to rally.

I have a TON of friends who routinely (weekly) track and race their Evos. The ONLY ones I've seen have mechanical trouble of any kind were strictly due to too much power (500whp or so) for the stock driveline, resulting in busted diffs or transfer cases. I know this is blasphemy here, but I'd put the Evo durability against any Porsche off the showroom floor. It's that good...
 
Old Dec 5, 2006 | 09:20 AM
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Chris I have to believe you. The Evo has been more than tested in the most abusive racing conditions possible. Teutonictrio, if I could afford a good Porsche one would be sitting in my garrage. I have driven them and love them. That's what drew me to this board to begin with. Unfortunately when putting together a track car, Porsche parts are expensive. Something like an Evo could be a good alternative.
 
Old Dec 5, 2006 | 09:36 AM
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Also, check the ads section of the SCCA magazine. They have track-prepped and race cars for sale freqently.
 
Old Dec 5, 2006 | 11:28 AM
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tracktime - Contact John Mueller @ Road Race Chassis in SoCal. Let him know what you want to do, what your budget is, etc. They built the DOMINANT car in the SF region - it won 20-something straight races and has been reliable as hell. And yes, it's an Evo (competing w/Vettes, Porsches, and Vipers).
 
Old Dec 5, 2006 | 07:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Chris from Cali
I hope you're kidding...

Both the Evo and STi components have been tested in the most brutal form of motorsport around. When I got my Evo and talked w/Rhys Millen about it, he said all it needed were steel suspension components in place of aluminum and it'd be ready to rally.

I have a TON of friends who routinely (weekly) track and race their Evos. The ONLY ones I've seen have mechanical trouble of any kind were strictly due to too much power (500whp or so) for the stock driveline, resulting in busted diffs or transfer cases. I know this is blasphemy here, but I'd put the Evo durability against any Porsche off the showroom floor. It's that good...
I agree 100%. These are rally built cars that can take a lot more abuse than road racing. For his budget these are the cars you want...
 
Old Dec 6, 2006 | 09:45 AM
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you have a pm
 
Old Dec 6, 2006 | 05:46 PM
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I have a 99 E36 M3 T2 car that I have had for two years sadly only had the time to get a few events in due to a change in jobs. Car is great on the track, its reliable, hasn't given me any problems. Been considering selling it actually. every year I say I am going to do more events but I feel like I am just lying to myself, so what I am saying is I might be willing to sell that. Also I think my buddy may be selling his open trailer.
 
Old Dec 26, 2006 | 07:54 PM
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944. PM and I can put you in touch with someone that can really help you get a good car with a great set-up.
 
Old Dec 28, 2006 | 01:27 AM
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I am not in the US but have reasonable understanding of local issues.Have heard this question plenty of times----- buy a 944 S 2 if there is appropriate local class. Buy one already set up with proven history of performance-- you will get a competative car at a fraction of the development cost. Then you can focus on all the things that really matter-- your driving!
Do not be wasting time trying to go new path of development-- it is a very slippery slope if you do not know or understand where you are trying to go-- and intitially you will have your hand full with the logistics if running,let alone trying to evolve the car itself.Too many never pass that point and dissappear into the "one day" syndrome.
Lot's of track time equals the fun of improving all the time and the incentive to do so .My second choice would be Miata( much the same reasons) and those two(if you choose well when buying) will have re-sale value for the same reasons( BTW_- I am certain you would fit) .The other issue is the easy availability of who will do the work on the car(professional)?
 
Old Dec 29, 2006 | 12:07 PM
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Respectfully, Mueller has built some fast cars, but his tuning method seems to be to take things to the edge, and many times accidentally go over it. He's blown up a lot of cars. Not to mention in person he can be more than a little abrasive.

At this point, I really think the best bang for your buck in evo set up is probably with Robi Fuller at Robi Spec. Head to head, his cars seem to be more reliable, and are turning just as fast, if not faster lap times that street/track evos done by road race.

As for durability, its hard to beat miatas and hondas. At this year's 25 hr of thunder hill, the end of the race seemed to be a parade of hondas and miatas. Forced induction is hard to keep together for that period of time. The NA porsche obviously did well in this arena too.
 
Old Dec 29, 2006 | 12:22 PM
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Originally Posted by turbomx5
Respectfully, Mueller has built some fast cars, but his tuning method seems to be to take things to the edge, and many times accidentally go over it. He's blown up a lot of cars. Not to mention in person he can be more than a little abrasive.

At this point, I really think the best bang for your buck in evo set up is probably with Robi Fuller at Robi Spec. Head to head, his cars seem to be more reliable, and are turning just as fast, if not faster lap times that street/track evos done by road race.

As for durability, its hard to beat miatas and hondas. At this year's 25 hr of thunder hill, the end of the race seemed to be a parade of hondas and miatas. Forced induction is hard to keep together for that period of time. The NA porsche obviously did well in this arena too.
I am not going to disagree with you, but Robi (I know him as well) did most of his development hand in hand with Mueller. At a time attack a couple years back, they were swapping parts back and forth while Robi was testing the DMS 40mm coilovers. Good people - and yes, Robi is much nicer to deal with, even though he lives in the middle of nowhere.
 
Old Dec 30, 2006 | 11:26 AM
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have we crossed paths before?

I consider Robi a good friend also. He even bought my theft recovery miata. We used to hang out a lot at the track together. Haven't done so as much in the last year because I've spent more time travelling to tracks than spending time locally it seems. Driving other people's cars is way more fun than maintaining your own I am discovering. I met him when he did his first Ultimate Street Car Challenge when I beat up on him with my supra. :P

Sorry to ramble off topic. What track groups do you run with?
 


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