If someone can provide a constructive comparison of any two or review of these three tire sets I would greatly appreciate it. These tires are to be used for pretty regular Road Course use and occasional Auto X. No daily Driving. Would like to know cost vs wear time and performance.


Michelin Pilot Sport Cups

Yokohama Advan a048

Hoosier R6

 

I've had all 3. if this is your first set of r compounds, I would personally choose the advans.

The sport cups act very much like a street tire in thier on track manner and the gradual way they breakaway. The advan's are faster, and are still pretty easy to control at the limit. The Cups heat cycle a little better in my experience, but are a really expensive tire for what you get. If the Advans or NT01s or RA1s come in your sizes, these would be the tires to get first.

The Hoosier's are the fastest tire you listed. They also wear out the fastest, and like all DOT slicks, they break away significantly more suddenly than the grooved tires you listed. If cost is no issue, and you want to go fast, then these are the tires for you.

Shaved and fresh, the advans are pretty darn fast too. But nothing will beat the Hoosier for absolute lap times.

On my personal race car I run the A048s or yokohama slicks.

 

Simply put, virtually all cars at the last years track events were running Sport Cups.

 

that's a horribly over simplified view.

Just because a lot of porsches were running sport cups doesn't mean they are the fastest/cheapest/longest lasting or what ever tire out there. The sport cups are marketed hard to porsche clubs. They are a "safe" option, but not really the "best" at any anything as far as I can tell.

 

turbomx5 +1 my findings exactly!

 

Well could you tell us what you have found to be the best and at what?

 

well, you can write a book about current race tires, but I'll make a quick recap of the tires you asked about:

the hoosiers will be hands down the fastest in the hands of a skilled driver. they are in my opinion, still the fastest of a quickly growing field of DOT slicks. The kumho's are also very fast, and both heat cycle very well. At national events, these tires are usually pretty competitive with each other.

last season, I drove 2 cars that were sponsored by Yokohama and they both wore A048s. These are reasonably fast tires at full tread. They last much longer than the hoosiers, but are significantly slower. Because of the size of the tread blocks, heavy cars can overheat them because of the tread squirm. However, shaved to 4/32nds, they are much faster.

I personally wouldn't buy sport cups unless you needed thier sizes. I'd spend my money on Toy RA1s or A048s.

If you are a beginner, I would steer away from the DOT slicks. You won't learn as much using them as they break away much faster that treaded tires. They grip like hell, then just give out with little protest. If you haven't been to the track before, I would suggest running on a quality street tire (BFG KD or a Yoko Neova). You want to make your mistakes at lower speeds.

that help?
send me a pm if you want to talk more about it...
Matt

 

My pick out of:
PSC
Hoosier (short lived, but stickiest)
Yoko (not the right sizes for my car)
Toyo RA1 (very heavy, not as high a performer dry - compromise)
Nitto NT-01 (better than RA1 due to tread pattern, but heavy)
Pirelli Corsa (compromise tire)

Is the PSC... Very light weight (22/25 lbs for 235/295), very long lasting, very grippy (I'd say 2nd to the Hoosier), great turn-in, very good feedback, etc. Cons are they need a lap to warm-up, but then again so do the brakes and the driver. Heat cycled is +$15 at The Rack.

For pure performance in the warm / dry, the Hoosier R6 is the pick. But I want something I can run on the street between events (ie: 3 in a row late March - so I'll drive to / from the track on the PSCs and not worry).

 

any reason why you cant drive on the Hoosier to the track?

 

If it's 10 miles away, maybe - that's what I've heard others say. But Hoosiers really aren't meant for the street. No tread pattern, very soft compound, etc.

I've revised my list - and ordered Toyo RA1s to go on my Fikse Profil 13s.

 

track is 40 miles away

if it wont damage the tyres, i dont see why not if its perfectly dry???

any other views?

 

Don't see why not if 40 miles away and nice weather...

 

I generally agree with TurboMX5s feedback, but I think you probably need to distinguish between heavy and light cars, and I'd add another couple tires into the mix.

Best estimate 1-5, Stick/ Life on a heavy car:
Hoosier R6: 5 / 1
BFG R1: 5? / 2
MPC: 4.5 / 3 (narrow ideal slip angle and temp range where they are stickiest, so they take a good driver and setup, but can be basically as fast as the R1s if those are nailed)
Kuhmo V710: 4 / 2 (can overheat on heavy cars)
Nitto NT-01: 4 / 4??
Toyo RA1: 3 / 4 (has some issues at full tread depth on a heavy car)

Best estimate 1-5, Stick/ Life on a light car:
BFG R1: 5? / 3
Hoosier R6: 5 / 2
Kuhmo V710: 4.5 / 3 (has a wide slip angle, quite forgiving)
Nitto NT-01: 4 / 4?
Toyo RA1: 3.5 / 4.5 (grip gets better until tread is all gone, last forever)
MPC: 3.5 / 3.5 (hard to get enough heat in them to work at their best, narrow ideal slip angle)

Experience- I've never driven the NT-01 (though I've spent a lot of time on the similar but older and deeper tread RA1) and I've only heard early reports of the R1 from a friend that just started running them.
The BFG tire engineers at SEMA passed on the slip angle vs speed info on the MPCS, which they tested extensively along with the hoosiers while developing the new R1s. From the word around the paddock I would have thought that they would be significantly slower than the R6, but they claimed that's not the case, though it takes a better/ smoother driver to get similar times out of them.
I drove a bunch on the old Yoko 032Rs, but don't know enough about the 048s to include them here. I have a light car, and feel comfortable driving to events on everything here with the possible exception of the hoosers, which seem to pick up more rocks than the 710s for some reason. I use RA-1s for my street tires, and have 0 problems with them until the tread gets low enough to need to avoid standing water. For myself I see the R1 and NT-01s as the best value tires right now, though the '07 hoosiers should be right around the corner and will probably bump them to fastest again.

 

I'll add the following anecdote-
I drove the BFG R1 over the weekend. My impression is
*it seems to have a relatively narrow ideal temperature range (a little like a MPC)
*It also seems to like a little narrower slip angle range- also like a MPC or Hoosier, as opposed to the V710 which lets you hang it out pretty far without losing time.
*It seems to heat quicker than the MPC
*It seems to wear well and resist flatspots, also more like a MPC than I'd expected.

I guess this all makes sense, in that Michelin owns BFG, so it would make sense that they would use an evolution of the MPC technology in the BFG R1. I didn't get extensive time in it, so no lap time comparisons. Still, I'd say that if you like the MPC, or would like a cross between a MPC and hoosier R6 then this might be the tire for you. If you prefer really sliding the car around over a wide range of slip angles, then they style of V710 might be more to your liking...

 

Long Story short I ended up buying some unused Hoosier R3S03 from a forum member and hated them the first time I took them out, no grip at all and I drive pretty hard, I couldnt get heat in them for anything. I got a slight front/rear camber adjustment and now they are unbelivable and I'm still not getting them really hot.

I plan to ride with member manalex who has the MPSC's and speaks highly of them but if the R6 are better than the ones I have I know which tire I'll have next, they own the RA1's by a long shot and I really dont want to take a step backwards in traction. I am also going to consider a BFG R1 as well because they are feather light and I have seen them perform pretty well although they slide around a lot more than I would like.