Chad should get a veyron and mod it!

Too much money to be made by leaving the car stock. :cool:

Actually, attitudes appear to be improving. I'm now recieving calls with status reports instead of having to place the calls and ask for information. I'm also being given anticipated schedules. :)

That is great to hear. I know the feeling you get when a project just seems to keep getting deeper and never seems to turn the corner and move in a positive direction. It can bring the passion down, but it's a good feeling when things start to click and actually make genuine progress again. I'm happy for you.

OK, here is the latest.

After all the parts were recieved, I was told why having my heads and liner have takinb so long. Apparaently my Woosner liners are not consentric at the tops like the Porsche liners. hilarious Not an issue but for the o-rings. :eek:

Well this called for a little engineering that in the long run will save thousands of dollars for those that follow. Along the way we also learned interesting additional things. :rolleyes: First, in the past it has cost about $2,500 to machine the heads/liners due to the alignment work involved. The new machine work should cost about $600.00. Second, in the past both Porsche and EVO head gaskets(the only ones I am aware of) slightly overlap the bore or liner ID. This is how the heads seal and really isn't ideal. This will no longer be required with our design. :D We went to the best head gasket maker in the US, a company called Kinitics to build the gaskets based on our engineering design. Along the way we learned that they build a modified 996tt head gasket for a company called RPM Motorsports (or RPM something) out of Tempe Arizona. hilarious I wonder who these gaskets are being made for. :rolleyes:

Anyway, the long and the short of it is we have brought down the machining costs. We are engineering the head gaskets, gas sealing o-ring and a T ring. We will have these made to our engineering specs. With this design the bar chosen to be run will not be the weak link as the seal together with the studs should take whatever pressure you choose to throw at it. :D Wear and tear on the motor should now be the limiting factor together with fuel and timing. As a plus, the machining,the three sets of o-rings and the head gaskets will probably cost less than the old machining costs by itself use to. :D

I hope to have some pics in about a week. If everything goes a planned I will share the info so anyone anyone can obtain these parts along with having the machine work done very reasonably. :cool:

Chad,

If you ever decide to pay Norway a visit - I'll buy you a beer or two!
- this tread have been (and continuing to be) really entertaining. It's priceless! I've spent hours reading details about things that I know nothing about - it's infotainment!!!

Good luck with the final assembly! Looking forward to reading on....

Here is a letter I recieved:

Chad,

I’m in here today going over the last of the engineering. I have to redesign the Head Gasket and the stamping Die in order to obtain the larger bore size to accommodate the Sealing ring system. This is nothing but “busy work”. I redesigned the Gasket with the larger bore size and now have to make sure the changes etc are all OK. I have been sent the CAD drawing of the Gasket and the Die and I have to make sure all dimensions are good to go. It nice to do this on a Saturday when there are no interruptions. Get it wrong and we have Gaskets that don’t fit. The Gasket maker does not have a Head or any other part there to make these checks.

Here is what I have come up with so far. You will see there is a lot more cost on machining the Liners than the Heads. It’s all about set up time. We have to install the Liners and indicate off them and the Liner manifold. Then it just a case of transferring the numbers across to the heads and machining the grooves.

This is a far better way that what we did in the past. Although I think our first attempts were good, the work involved makes this way more expensive. This new way will net the same result, for far less expense per engine. We have made Liners that were a matrix of steel and Beryllium Copper. The Top of the liner had this CUBE ring pressed into it. The Ring had the Sealing ring groove machined in it. The Heads and the Manifolds were all machined for O rings around all of the water and Oil Ports. A lot of work in programming and machine time. The CUBE ring did allow for more Ignition timing as this ring does help with lowering the chance of detonation.

The following are the costs involved. All I need to the cost of the material for the T rings. I have not yet received the quote from the supplier. He had to go back to the mill and get it from them. It’s a 4.5” diameter tube of Aluminum Nickel Bronze. I will have this Monday morning.

Machine Liners in Manifold $ 480.00
Machine Cylinder Heads $ 120.00

2 Custom 996TT 0.051” MLS Head Gaskets $ 175.00 ea

6 Phizion Gas Rings $ 54.50 ea

6 “T” ANB sealing Rings $ 120.00 ea labor only
Material $ TBD

In bound shipping $ 50.00 est

Design and Engineering and Die charges $ 960.00
This is a partial cost. I have divided the total costs here by 6.

If you give authorization, I will have the material here Tuesday. The Machining will be done immediately and will be finished by Tuesday evening. The Gaskets will take 2-3 days to be ready after the die is finished. I would expect to have the Gaskets and Phizion Rings here by weeks end or the first part of the following week. The Gaskets are made under the Rapid prototyping system, so the turnaround time is quick. The T rings would be done by Wednesday/ Thursday. We will start these as soon as we receive the material. If we receive the Springs back, the Heads could be assembled and back to Rob by the end of the week.

And here is the last one:

Hello Chad,

This morning I received the quote for the “T” sealing ring material. This material is Aluminum Nickel Bronze. This is the material that has the best hardness quality to stand up to the combustion pressures, any detonation that may happen and transfer the heat the best. We could use Beryllium, but the cost of this goes up even higher.

We need material that is 4.75” in diameter to machine to the final outside diameter of the Ring.

The cost of the material is $ 500.00. Thus will add $ 83.00 per Ring. Unfortunately, we need more than what is required for the Rings as we have to allow for cut off per each part and at least 4” to grab in the Lathe jaws.

The use of any other material will lower the material cost, but has issue of heat transfer and machining capabilities. Stainless will give us good machining but very poor heat transfer. Stainless is a good insulator. Aluminum is good in transferring heat, similar to the Head and Liner material, but machining the Ring becomes an issue. Holding the diameters, widths and thickness at the sizes required to 0.0005”- 0.001” tolerances. We have 0.002” clearance between the Ring and Groove. It become important to hold the dimensions in machining. This is not hard, but does require good machining practices and material that holds it shape in machining.

The Gaskets arrived this morning. The new one is a MLS Gasket. Both cannot be used with the Sealing ring system as the Gasket bore is too small. The Gasket bore has to be bigger to make allowance for the Sealing Ring.

To run the Cylinder pressures you may see to obtain the HP you are looking for, it is my advice to give the sealing of the heads to the Liners all the help you can.


Note: The ones that cannot be used, that Neil is refering to is the EVOMS gaskets that I sent him. He also confirmed that our gaskets and the EVOMS gaskets are both made by the same manufacturer ......... Kinetics. Once our prototype is made additional sets of gaskets can probably be purchases for somewhere between $150.00 to $175.00 for two gaskets. More infomation later, if this works out.


Another bit of good information, these "T" sealing rings are reuseable. :D

Just so there is no doubt as to the genius behind this latest work, the credit for design and production belongs to Neil Harvey of Performance Developments.

I understand Neil worked for Porsche (Germany) before he left and struck out on his own. :cool:

:cool::cool::cool::cool::cool:

vhad

you stud although I never plan to own a TT or want to this is great of you to provide all this info for others to use.


Cheers!

Josh

Hey Chad,
Its Alex, the guy who used to work at S CAR GO that did alot of work on your car on the original setup, before I moved to socal. I'm just saying Hi since I'm finally a member on this board. I have been following this post for a while but never got around to registering.

I'm glad things are starting to come together and I still stop by the shop when ever I get up to norcal. Which will also be this weekend. There is an event on sat, and the grand prix on sunday, but the guys where saying they where going to nhra friday night qualifying so I'm probably going to be at the shop on friday to meet up with them for that. Hopefully I'll see you there for that.

Alex

Alex,

Are you still into drifting like you use to be? For those who don't know Alex was one of the world's top drifters. :D A few years ago Alex ran KA at a televised drifting event held at the Alameda Naval Air Station. He also ran KA at a Porsche event where he took second best TTOD of the day. TTOD was taken by Dave Colman who was also behind the wheel of KA.

Alex, I still remember when you and KA left the track and into the field at about 100+ mph going around that first cornor. :eek: :o

I'm sure glad you guys can run fast or that would have been messy.

I'm still up to no good. Not doing as much driving laitly because I took a possition as one of the judges for the Formula Drift series. I still get to do some driving here and there though. Mostly involved with the tuner industry, time attacks and such.

I'm still making parts to pay the bills but have yet to get a shop down here in socal. I may get back into working on cars again but for now I've just been playing with my own toys. Speaking of which, I'm bringing the super seven replica up this weekend for that event on sat. Probabaly be at the shop by about 5ish tomarro if the traffic isnt too bad. Hope to see you up there.

I have been out of the State since July 28th. I received the following e-mail.

Chad,

The work on the sealing ring system is underway. The heads will be finished today. The Liners are in the manifolds. We found the flange on the Liner a little thicker than the step in the manifold. This will not matter with the sealing system, as it just gives the Phizion Ring a couple of thousands more crush.

The Head Gaskets are all finalized and in process of manufacture. The material for the sealing backup ring is ordered and should be delivered today or tomorrow.

I had the stock head stud tested for tensile and the following are the results.


Stock stud 175,000 PSI tensile strength

ARP stud 220,000 PSI tensile strength

The ARP studs are made of Inconel 718. I figure these are what you have. There is very little we can do here. The bolt pattern and the castings limit the ability to increase the stud diameter. The ARP studs are wasted in the center. This diameter can be increased, but typically Porsche engines like the “stretch” of the wasted studs. The limiting factor here as always is the anchoring in the case halves.

Neil



Actually, we have the Porsche, ARP and EVOMS studs. I called EVOMS this afternoon to inquire about the tensile strenght of their studs. They said, I believe the name was Nate, was on the phone. I left him a message requesting the tensiile strenght of the set of studs I purchased from them.

As you can see the project is moving. :)

As soon as I have additional information, I will let you know. :cool: