I've learned a long time ago that most guys with money will never admit they made a mistake when it comes to screwing up on a car mod or purchase..
Egos are just too big to man up....

 

And most parents would never admit that children are a huge, expensive pain in the *** but they still love their kids and don't regret having them.

I would like to apologize on behalf of the entire forum for your disappointment in the piggyback module that you bought without researching. We are all sincerely bummed out that you modified your car and weren't satisfied but we are going to continue modifying our cars to a level that we can afford.

Now please go away.

- Patrick

 

First off it was on the car when I bought it secondly I would never buy a piggyback system.
I've worked on modifying cars for the last 35 yrs and know BS when it's being sold to fools that don't know better than to ask the right questions....

Enjoy your mods while driving a sports car in a straight line and keeping the Porsche owner stereotype alive and well...

I'll stick around and watch the egos fail....

 

+1, Patrick

 

So you bought a used toy with a performance enhancing technology that you vehemently disagree with based on reliability concerns? Brilliant... I'm sure it was gently driven by a little old lady before you took the reins.

- Patrick

 

I agree with you. This RS211 makes me not even want to get on this forum anymore. I came from a heavily heavily modded GT-R to a 14' 991 turbo and am very interest in peoples insight on mods they like and ones they don't. Warranty is always in the back of my mind but than again I buy these types of cars cause I like going fast and never seem to go fast enough. I would like to read at least one thread where this RS211 guy doesn't chime in about being against it and the warranties being voided. The GT-R forum was amazingly useful for performance upgrades and you didn't have people ****ting on mods like this guy. But hey that's just my .02's

 

I figure let the first buyer take the hit and put on 5,700 mi. and I get to keep an extra $50,000.00 in my pocket along with a set of H&R lowering springs installed and a $3,000.00 Level1tec piggyback for sale at a seriously good price if someone wants it....

It was inspected by the dealer and piggyback removed by dealer for it to be warrantied....
But hey the Turbo S is my slow car with a full factory warrantee...

 

In all fairness - I started this thread, and one of my central points was that I thought that - hypothetically, of course - if my PDK blew (whether because of a tune or not) that having a piggy-back would make an owner less susceptible to a warranty claim denial because it would not be possible for the PCNA techs to know that the ECU has been affected, vs a flash tune that leaves some imprint somewhere in the coding of the ECU that can more easily be detected. My thread was focused on how to best maintain a warranty.

The simple answer, I guess, is that both will leave clues and possibly void your warranty - or at least make it more likely than not that you are fighting an uphill battle to enforce the moss-magnussen act when PCNA blames a failure on your mod.

So assuming that neither the piggy-back nor the tune offers an advantage in undetectability, the question then is what offers the best bang for the buck.

But maybe that is for another thread.

 

A proper alignment, good tires, a well designed turbo back exhaust and a nice canyon road, best bang for the buck...

 

Tom put it pretty well. And he is at a dealer. I have been doing this stuff or over 15 years with these cars and the relationship you have with your dealership and how you treat your car has a lot to do with it. Also as many mentioned the safety and reliability of what path you have chosen to tune your car. And most importantly who you choose to do it with, their experience, trustworthiness and access they have just in case. We are your source to help you make the right choices for your needs. (Needs lol) If you want it, do it. If you don't believe in it don't do it. For these years mentioned I have been dealing with GIAC and been there to see them be the first to provide OBD tuning on this platform and others reliably and safely while developing awesome performance gains. The flash loader technology is nice and most of my customers at least have not even needed to use it to flash back to stock let alone get into hot water at the dealership. I'm not saying there are the only option and I don't think there is such thing as 1 best for everyone. But I give GIAC a thumbs up and have never had an issue. Everything can have risk. If you fall under scenario number three made a wrong turn somewhere.

It's not like we are slapping giant turbochargers on stock Honda Civic's and pumping in 40 psi here. I work with tuners and manufacturers that I trust. And there's not always one perfect bullet or choice. The vendor can watch over the whole scenario and I personally have never had a customer's warranty claims denied or even allowed them to make a risky choice without the right information and calculations. If someone chooses to build a 1000+hp car this is not even in the mindset. So between bone stock and that we have a large group of us.

The last thing I would like to say is that performance upgrades versus factory executives is nothing new. Has been going on since automobiles came out. And guess what. We love it and we will keep doing it as well as continuing to figure out ways to do it better. This industry is growing. Boys will be boys. You don't have to be irresponsable to have fun. It's a good thing there are some highly technical and innovative options nowadays to make such advanced cars even better. To each their own!

Sorry if I ranted

 

I keep looking around and don't seem to find any customers before and after dyno sheets or videos with these tuning options... Just dealers and vendors of products sales pitch...
Some hub dyno sheets would be good with sustained loading in different throttle positions would be nice to see where the real drivability gains would be, before and after...

Hell if you just want a canned tune of one size fits all go for it but the exhaust systems I see out there vary quite a bit, some far better than others and some just noise..

The Porsche Turbo owner tax makes me smile..... seriously $5k+ for some muffs

 

RS, I know about your other car and what you have done there. Much respect! You of all people with the innovations you made and sources you tapped know that there are go to guys...Especially here in SoCal. You trust them. You don't ask them to prove things. Just work with them on your baby.

By now there are tuners and vendors out there that have a track record. This type of customer doesn't have the time or need to go and Dyno before/after in most cases. And the forum has always been an awesome resource. If you make the right choices that is. When GIAC and some of the others make a claim you know it's good. If you don't think it's good then don't do it. But good or bad doesn't apply universally to everyone.

I usually don't like to rant but this information is critical and stays for people to come in for you. I also know I am answering some questions and not others but there are many posts already in this thread. So at this point just sharing my opinions.

Cheers

 

I've been doing this stuff forever it seems and I like to see that same data that I use when tuning my own cars.
I'm not knocking any products and I would be working on my own tune if I didn't care about a warrantee on my own [expensive to me] daily driver..

One size fits everyone tuning can only be done if all the parts are exactly the same...
V box data means nothing to me as does top speed since I don't drag race or cruise down a runway without having an adult beverage in one hand and in flight menu in the other....
I wanna see sustained midrange dyno comparisons in order to see real world gains....The stuff a tuner uses while tuning not just a power pull..

If it wouldn't void my warrantee I'b be knockin at proper tuners door for a custom ECU tune tomorrow...

Customers need to ask questions and not just follow like sheep....I alway ask for proof before I let someone do something I can't do for myself.

 

Cheers. Upgrading your 991TT is likely not for you my friend. I bet if you tested before and after yourself to satisfy all of your curiosities you would be pleased. But I don't think any thing is 100% with the factory or dealer therefore you won't be completely satisfied.

Some good companies/tuners were mentioned in this thread. I'm sure if someone wants to tap their cars potential and have some fun they will do what is right for them. I am very sure they will have some good options and information to be found here. In my opinion a solid flash like GIAC will make their car fly and be a solid choice all things considered.

 

I'm not going to do any serious tuning on my car since that's not why I bought it and I want a warranty on it....
I already have a car that I've designed/built exactly the way I want it to be for the kind of driving I enjoy...