ok so i love the sound of the Europipe and didnt like the Tubi Race. On my New 991 tts i am thinking ok just go with the Europipe i loved the sound however im being told the Street Tubi (200 cell) still makes more power (hp/tq) over the EP (100) cell.. using GIAC software regardless on any other Bolt ons IC's, Plenum etc...
any layman explanations of the reality? is it THAT small a difference that sound is the only factor (price) ..?

Also i am being told that the IPD plenum LOSES power on a GIAC upgrade-upper RPM-while the seat of the pants my feel the low/mid tq pick up? what gives?

 

The comparison you’ve seen on sdg1871’s car is between a Europipe 100 cell exhaust versus a Tubi catless exhaust with a more aggressive tune so apples and oranges.

 

Stef is 100 percent correct. The final results posted were comparing my car with a custom tune from GIAC optimized to my europipe to my car with a custom tune from GIAC optimized for the Tubi catless race exhaust. The final tune optimized for the Tubi catless on my
car is indeed more aggressive than that for the Europipe because GIAC/Champion were no longer concerned about high exhaust gas temperature's damaging the catalytic converters on the EP.

That being said after replacing the EP with the Tubi catless but before putting on that more aggressive tune, Champion Dynoed my car twice. The average gain with the Tubi catless was 12 horsepower and 15 lbs ft of torque. Tom from Champion, you are free to post the Dino results from those pulls.

Accordingly the final gain from my car with Europipe with a custom tune (550 hp and 559
Lbs ft) to with Tubi catless with a custom tune (566 hp and 577 lbs ft) is the combined product of the catless exhaust and the more aggressive tune.

Of course that doesn't mean going catless is for everyone. There is no question in my mind that Europipe produces incredibly high quality exhausts for these cars. Every Porsche mechanic tells me that. And the EP exhaust with GIAC Stage 2 and Champion ICs produced great power on their own without going to catless. With catless and a more aggressive tune appropriate for the catless exhaust I got some more power especially up top. Also obviously in many states you can't run catless exhaust without running afoul of emissions regs. And catless is a LOT louder on cold start upnNd with the popping/backfiring when you come off the gas.

 

I agree with this statement 100%. I was afraid that the results of our testing on SDG's car were going to come across as bashing the Europipe exhaust, but I want to be VERY clear that I think the EP exhaust is a fantastic product! SDG's car made great power with the EP exhaust, and in fact, I even tried to talk him into keeping it! However, he really wanted to squeeze every available extra HP out of the car, so he decided to go with the cat-less Tubi. But for the record, the Europipe is a fantastic exhaust, and it works very well with our package.


To the OP. What I said to you yesterday was that I have never done a direct comparison between the Europipe and the Tubi Street exhaust. I said that in terms of peak HP, the testing we did with the Tubi street showed higher peak HP numbers (only by a few), but I also added a disclaimer that it was a different car, different conditions, on a different day. Until we can perform a careful test under controlled conditions, it's impossible to make a definitive statement about which "makes more power".

 

Agree 100 percent. Europipe is a fantastic, well made and engineered exhaust. All the Porsche mechanics who know exhausts with whom I have spoken have told me that no one builds a higher quality exhaust than EP. The switch was just about wringing every last bit of horsepower and torque for speed events as you can wring a bit more out of a an exhaust with no cats. The EP with the custom tune made tons of power. And if I or my neighbors can't stand the extra noise I may end up putting the EP and the terrific custom tune Champion and GIAC did for it on my car back on.

 

Either EP, Tubi or even fabspeed are excellent systems, you may see a little difference in power but not much to name a "winner", trust me I tried.

Just install whatever you want and combined with any other bolt on (any brand) that please you... The trick always will be the flexability of the tune, and in my book there is only one true "mod friendly" tune out there... If you know what I mean

 

Another suggestion would be Kline exhaust, the sound is incredible and it is one of the few systems that have equal length headers. I am very happy with it, and receive a lots compliments.

 

LOL...of course, there's only one.

 

LOL well maybe two... Just to get along

 

That's the spirit! These little turbines need all the help they can get. Catless has its up and downsides for sure. Especially if you can play with both.

 

So true Sam.


I now have my car back from Champion (picked it up from the transporter at 630 am this morning) and got to drive it a little.


My impressions of the Tubi catless vs Europipe soundwise:


1. Cold start up sounds a lot louder with Tubi catless.


2. The Tubi catless exhaust noise in normal is only a bit louder than EP.


3. There is very little popping/backfiring noise when you let off a heavy throttle in normal with Tubi catless. 95 percent of my driving is in normal.


4. With Tubi catless the popping/backfiring noise when you let off a heavy throttle in sport and sport plus is a good bit louder than with EPs.


5. The turbo and wastegate noise is a little louder with Tubi catless than with EP but not dramatically so.


My initial impression is that the Tubi catless is not as loud in the cabin as I feared. It is not louder than the exhaust noise in my E63 S with Renntech sport mufflers. There is no question that the car is more refined sounding with Europipe (while still producing some excellent noises) and more aggressive sounding with Tubi catless.


My biggest and really only concern is that on cold start up the noise from outside the car will cause a problem with my neighbors. I wish there was a way to tune away the cold start up mode. One of my racing friends who is a tuner did that for his catless downpipes F10 M5 due to his neighbors.


Really didn't have an opportunity to do any killer pulls this morning. Staten Island during rush hour is crawling with traffic and police so going wild with my new beast at that time of day is not an option. Did one WOT pull from about 10 mph on sport plus and my Pilot Super Sports did not slip.

 

Like P said Kline has really earned a mention. You get it all. Guaranteed!

 

i can say that im glad we can all get along...now lets get some SLIPS and rear world times in!!!
and here i sit all stock and not bored, YET.....Im getting pretty itchy though

 

The car is quite fast in stock form anyway. You have no warranty issues or concerns