Oh...don't get me wrong, the cars will still be tunable, we've already tuned that ECU so for us it's just a matter of working on a new platform. They will just be harder to tune and there will most likely be even less options available than there is now.

Hopefully I'm wrong, but that's the way it's looking at the moment.

 

I think like always challenges will present themselves and they industry will overcome them. Definitely getting more difficult and tricky though.

 

Sam:

No style of argument here. Moreover you are inferring things I never said -- such as some claim I did not make that your mods are somehow unsafe. I never said that because I don't have any data on that. I was solely discussing a written warranty which is something Champion offers and no one else, to date, does.

If you are offering your customers a warranty then you have removed/equaled one of Champion's biggest selling points and that is a huge win for your customers. Your cars are already going a lot faster than theirs on this generation.

To be clear. You offer outstanding customer service which is what all your clients tell me. And you have been the first to market with many mods such as the upgraded turbos. And your customers' cars are winning everything. So no need to get hot under the collar as I have not insulted you or your company or made untrue statements.

Sorry you didn't like me posting videos of your cars not doing well in some early races. But if you put your cars out there in competition they will be videoed -- win or lose. Perhaps that did indeed make you more driven to be the best. And your ShiftSector results from the last two events prove that your mods are in the fastest cars. Accordingly, far from criticizing me you should be buying me a truckload of McGriddles

 

They can all thank you for it! 991.2's included...All of them
Cheers and enjoy your car in good health Scott!

 

Getting back on topic ECU are getting harder to crack. It took tuners years to break into the F10 M5's ECU which forced Dinan to offer a mediocre piggyback which contravened everything Steve Dinan said for wrote for years about how flash tunes are far superior to piggybacks. Of course he was right.

I believe Porsche will really lock down the ECU on its non "Turbo" turbo Carreras, S and GTS cars to avoid tubers from increasing the power nearer to those of the far more expensive Turbo And Turbo S

 

Two thumbs up for you Sam. Looking forward to seeing the document posted.

A great cherry on the top of all of your wins at speed events

 

Didn't mean to open a can of worms on the warranty thing, but have experience on more than a few Gen 1 NSX's installing factory approved (wink, wink) Comptech performance bolt ons - superchargers, headers, exhaust, intake, but never a tune.

No problems to test the warranty issue, but relationship w/dealer did pay for a few questionable claims over the years.

In lieu of a tune, what can a Turbo owner expect with bolt ons?

THX

 

There are hardware upgrades that can add a bit of power, but a good tune is really the string that ties it all together.

For example, a good catted exhaust can give you about 15-20hp at the wheels and of course, much better sound. That's probably the biggest bang for buck you'll get for a bolt-on upgrade without a tune.

You could also add intercoolers for greater cooling efficiency, which you'll notice especially if you live in a hotter climate.

But eventually, you'll hit the point of diminishing returns unless you add the tune.

 

Haha, no can just "debates". As you know I had the same exact thing with Comptech (loved it!!!) and my NSX! One dealer wouldn't come near it while another was cool. Bottom line, they were supportive and I knew what I was getting into. The car was making almost twice the factory horsepower and I even had the "9lb pulley, so your on your own" in the fine print. Rocksolid. The engineers had raced and designed it around the concept and good bet that she could take it. Gave them the confidence to stand behind it and some dealers followed while others did not. I think this will translate into the 991.2 as it has in all of the other models. Interestingly you even see a lot of factory manufacturers coming out with performance upgrades from top to bottom available in house. Even Lexus! There will always be a large group of gentlemen, gearheads, crazy guys or whatever you want to call us and a bunch of even crazier guys to support us! My humble opinion...Play on!

 

I agree with Tom. And there will be stages and levels to fit everyone's criteria. Needs is probably not the correct word LOL! I think it's great that there are some excellent options out there with great representatives my friend Tom a champion being one of them. So to focus on the topic at hand…Tunes will be coming for the new cars. Have conversations with the different representatives of the solutions that attract you. Weigh those conversations and the reputations of the ones offering the attraction. Make an educated decision that fits you best and most likely you will be fine like most people have. I actually believe it safe to say that every single 991 turbo owner on this forum has been just fine upgrades or not whomever they chose to go with. Every single one. That speaks volumes!

 

Honestly very little, The entire point of most engine modifications(exhuast, intercoolers, turbos, etc...) is to increase the mass of air, thus increasing the fuel mass injected. Porsche does such a wonderful job at modeling all of their airflow tables and know the amount of air mass they want going through the motor to obtain a certain power figure in factory form.

Once the actual airflow starts eclipsing that airflow limit, the ecu will compensate by starting to close the throttles. Using the throttle as a means to control air mass, and resulting fuel mass.

This is why as a calibrator it is so vital to have full control over the ecu. Long gone are the days of just needing to find a single ignition timing map, fuel targets, and simple boost control. There are so many redundancies in these ecus now that properly understanding them involves hundreds of hours of reverse engineering and testing, which thankfully Mitch and Joe are fantastic at!

-Jon

 

To Cobb's credit, they are the only tuner I know that continues to purchase vehicles, upgrade them with hardware and tune them in house where they have tens of departments and more employees/engineers than many tuners combined. Then purchase internal engine components as well as collaborate with the best in the industry to punish them to the breaking point and collect their own data. Then after all of that…They share that data with the community. The true key and glue to all of my packages.

 

ehem....Hi, forgetting someone?

 

Hey bud, McGriddles for sure . I mean ECU tuning firms.

 

Honestly? Pretty much nothing more than out of pocket $$$$. They never have either. Do you remember back in the days of carbs, where if you added say, an intake and exhaust and didn't rejet / re-tune, you'd have nothing more than $$$ noise? Well, nothing much has changed, despite aftermarket manufacturer's claims of huge gains with intakes etc...

Bottom line, no tune = no increase, and likely a decrease in performance and cash, IMO.