Ahhh 997 GTS vs. 991 C2S
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I'm not sure about this. I've driven the 996 and 997 back to back, and was surprised to find that there wasn't much difference in feel and performance, though I certainly prefer the interior of the 997.
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.Now I can't answer for what seat time you spent in a 996 but i spent 4 years in one as a dd. And near 4 years later, on Porsches drive event through the mountains with the new 997 c2 and c2s line up of cars along with a few 996 cars present inc 4S, the differences were night and day....very noticeable. We were really driving these cars hard too....not pussyfooting around in traffic. I had the option of buying a near new 996tts instead of the 997S when i placed my order but realised the changes were far too dramatic to buy another 996 even though it was turbo fast. I suspect the same will apply with my 997tt vs the new 991 platform i.e. the changes too dramatic to move from a 997tt to a later 997tt in favour of a new 991tt.
After trading my 996 once my custom order had arrived and driving 997S (back to back again) and, for near 4 years again as a dd i can say with 100% certainty if anyone says there isn't a substantial difference between these 2 cars they are talking with their wallet or, are so ham fisted they are incapable of discerning what were very obvious and noticeable changes. I say the same would also apply to 997 and 991 but will reserve final judgement until i drive 991...although i won't be holding any candle out deluding myself that the changes WILL be very noticeable and, in a better sense. I also had numerous track days in both 996/997 breeds so wasn't just passing judgement in bumper to bumper traffic environments either.
Last edited by speed21; Mar 3, 2012 at 06:06 AM.
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Theres not if your talking 996 to base 997. With the 997S its another matter.
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Well i am 100% sure .
Now I can't answer for what seat time you spent in a 996 but i spent 4 years in one as a dd. And near 4 years later, on Porsches drive event through the mountains with the new 997 c2 and c2s line up of cars along with a few 996 cars present inc 4S, the differences were night and day....very noticeable. We were really driving these cars hard too....not pussyfooting around in traffic. I had the option of buying a near new 996tts instead of the 997S when i placed my order but realised the changes were far too dramatic to buy another 996 even though it was turbo fast. I suspect the same will apply with my 997tt vs the new 991 platform i.e. the changes too dramatic to move from a 997tt to a later 997tt in favour of a new 991tt.
After trading my 996 once my custom order had arrived and driving 997S (back to back again) and, for near 4 years again as a dd i can say with 100% certainty if anyone says there isn't a substantial difference between these 2 cars they are talking with their wallet or, are so ham fisted they are incapable of discerning what were very obvious and noticeable changes. I say the same would also apply to 997 and 991 but will reserve final judgement until i drive 991...although i won't be holding any candle out deluding myself that the changes WILL be very noticeable and, in a better sense. I also had numerous track days in both 996/997 breeds so wasn't just passing judgement in bumper to bumper traffic environments either.
.Now I can't answer for what seat time you spent in a 996 but i spent 4 years in one as a dd. And near 4 years later, on Porsches drive event through the mountains with the new 997 c2 and c2s line up of cars along with a few 996 cars present inc 4S, the differences were night and day....very noticeable. We were really driving these cars hard too....not pussyfooting around in traffic. I had the option of buying a near new 996tts instead of the 997S when i placed my order but realised the changes were far too dramatic to buy another 996 even though it was turbo fast. I suspect the same will apply with my 997tt vs the new 991 platform i.e. the changes too dramatic to move from a 997tt to a later 997tt in favour of a new 991tt.
After trading my 996 once my custom order had arrived and driving 997S (back to back again) and, for near 4 years again as a dd i can say with 100% certainty if anyone says there isn't a substantial difference between these 2 cars they are talking with their wallet or, are so ham fisted they are incapable of discerning what were very obvious and noticeable changes. I say the same would also apply to 997 and 991 but will reserve final judgement until i drive 991...although i won't be holding any candle out deluding myself that the changes WILL be very noticeable and, in a better sense. I also had numerous track days in both 996/997 breeds so wasn't just passing judgement in bumper to bumper traffic environments either.
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There is a difference but it is not night and day. Mostly in the suspension. Not power. Of course the interior is better.
Last edited by buck986; Mar 3, 2012 at 08:51 AM.
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Ahhhhh...
Just came back from my 60 mile drive in the 991 in rain... I want to love this car, but for some reason it just doesn't feel right. Maybe its the combination of rain and bad PA roads. I'm taking the car back to the dealership tomorrow afternoon. Hopefully I can like it more on the drive there, because I really want to get a 911...
Just came back from my 60 mile drive in the 991 in rain... I want to love this car, but for some reason it just doesn't feel right. Maybe its the combination of rain and bad PA roads. I'm taking the car back to the dealership tomorrow afternoon. Hopefully I can like it more on the drive there, because I really want to get a 911...
Good luck on your car hunt!!
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And to answer your question. Absolutely!!!
In fact the very first 997 i jumped into back to back after being in a manual 996 was a manual base 997. My immediate findings after punching it up the first straight and into the first bend at warp speed was holy ****! The whole feel of the car was simply sooo much more connected and confidence inspiring. The precise shift of the gearbox, the flexibility and additional power of the engine, the extra surety of the brakes, the superior handling dynamics, were all just way too hard to miss....well for me anyway. Although my first drive was pushing it hard through a deserted windy mountain road not a public street full of slow cars.
Then there was the look of the 997 car. Superior curvy body shape, interior, where do you want me to stop...?? And getting in and out of different variants (996/997) all day long confirmed these differences time and time over. Now manifold if you couldn't feel those differences and felt they were all just very subtle to you, then that's perfectly fine by me. Maybe this is why you are unenthused with the 991 in comparison to what you have now? Funny thing was on the day there was a 996 guy that kept going on and on at every given opportunity (except for in front of the P reps) he felt his 996 was as good if not better. But the truth be known was this guy had only just recently bough his 996 new not long prior to the release of the 997. He had openly stated on a few occasions around the lunch table how he had spent all his money and couldn't afford to change which of course suited him because he didn't think much of the 997
. I also heard similar stories in the months thereafter from other 996 guys that simply didn't have the coin to stump up for the new 997...again most being recent purchasers of 996's. OK.. A little pathetic i know, but let's face it, that's how some folks are. And while i can understand their defensiveness, thankfully the same didn't apply to the majority of 996 owners on the day, most of who were able to be honest with themselves after driving the new 997 car. These guys all spoke very enthusiastically about the substantial changes to the new car and their experiences on the day....vs the one or two sore tails that had recently blown their chops too hastily on a 996.
Orrr... how about even a good 996 or 993 if the dollars are too stretched for the GTS?? Any 911 is good. But make a decision. It's getting little long overdue now. Procrastination is not healthy.
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Night and day is a term, meaning there was a substantial difference that could be easily noticed by a driver.
And to answer your question. Absolutely!!!
In fact the very first 997 i jumped into back to back after being in a manual 996 was a manual base 997. My immediate findings after punching it up the first straight and into the first bend at warp speed was holy ****! The whole feel of the car was simply sooo much more connected and confidence inspiring. The precise shift of the gearbox, the flexibility and additional power of the engine, the extra surety of the brakes, the superior handling dynamics, were all just way too hard to miss....well for me anyway. Although my first drive was pushing it hard through a deserted windy mountain road not a public street full of slow cars.
Then there was the look of the 997 car. Superior curvy body shape, interior, where do you want me to stop...?? And getting in and out of different variants (996/997) all day long confirmed these differences time and time over. Now manifold if you couldn't feel those differences and felt they were all just very subtle to you, then that's perfectly fine by me. Maybe this is why you are unenthused with the 991 in comparison to what you have now? Funny thing was on the day there was a 996 guy that kept going on and on at every given opportunity (except for in front of the P reps) he felt his 996 was as good if not better. But the truth be known was this guy had only just recently bough his 996 new not long prior to the release of the 997. He had openly stated on a few occasions around the lunch table how he had spent all his money and couldn't afford to change which of course suited him because he didn't think much of the 997.
I also heard similar stories in the months thereafter from other 996 guys that simply didn't have the coin to stump up for the new 997...again most being recent purchasers of 996's. OK.. A little pathetic i know, but let's face it, that's how some folks are. And while i can understand their defensiveness, thankfully the same didn't apply to the majority of 996 owners on the day, most of who were able to be honest with themselves after driving the new 997 car. These guys all spoke very enthusiastically about the substantial changes to the new car and their experiences on the day....vs the one or two sore tails that had recently blown their chops too hastily on a 996.
And to answer your question. Absolutely!!!
In fact the very first 997 i jumped into back to back after being in a manual 996 was a manual base 997. My immediate findings after punching it up the first straight and into the first bend at warp speed was holy ****! The whole feel of the car was simply sooo much more connected and confidence inspiring. The precise shift of the gearbox, the flexibility and additional power of the engine, the extra surety of the brakes, the superior handling dynamics, were all just way too hard to miss....well for me anyway. Although my first drive was pushing it hard through a deserted windy mountain road not a public street full of slow cars.
Then there was the look of the 997 car. Superior curvy body shape, interior, where do you want me to stop...?? And getting in and out of different variants (996/997) all day long confirmed these differences time and time over. Now manifold if you couldn't feel those differences and felt they were all just very subtle to you, then that's perfectly fine by me. Maybe this is why you are unenthused with the 991 in comparison to what you have now? Funny thing was on the day there was a 996 guy that kept going on and on at every given opportunity (except for in front of the P reps) he felt his 996 was as good if not better. But the truth be known was this guy had only just recently bough his 996 new not long prior to the release of the 997. He had openly stated on a few occasions around the lunch table how he had spent all his money and couldn't afford to change which of course suited him because he didn't think much of the 997
. I also heard similar stories in the months thereafter from other 996 guys that simply didn't have the coin to stump up for the new 997...again most being recent purchasers of 996's. OK.. A little pathetic i know, but let's face it, that's how some folks are. And while i can understand their defensiveness, thankfully the same didn't apply to the majority of 996 owners on the day, most of who were able to be honest with themselves after driving the new 997 car. These guys all spoke very enthusiastically about the substantial changes to the new car and their experiences on the day....vs the one or two sore tails that had recently blown their chops too hastily on a 996.
To address your other point, I'm not unexcited about the 991 simply or mainly because I got a 997 last year. If I'd loved the 991 - as I expected to - I would have immediately starting hatching a scheme to get one, possibly keeping the 997 and replacing the Cayman with a 991. But it just didn't happen, at least not yet, though there are still more 991 variants to try in the pipeline.
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). So I feel your pain...I finally made a decision and decided to go crazy. I built it as "keeper" and intend to keep the car after my lease terms is over. Thank you everyone for your thoughts and opinions in helping me make the right decision! **EricP, I hope you don't mind me copying your color combination!
911 Carrera S
Burmester(R) Audio Package P3A
Exterior Color
Platinum Silver Metallic 1H
Espresso natural leather interior
Electric folding exterior mirrors
ParkAssist (front and rear)
Porsche Ceramic Composite Brakes (PCCB)
Porsche Dynamic Chassis Control (PDCC)
Sport Exhaust System
Sport Chrono Package
Porsche Doppelkupplung (PDK)
Wheels
20-inch Carrera Classic wheel
Wheel center caps with colored Porsche Crest
Wheel spacers, 5 mm
Seat belts in Guards Red
Seat heating (front)
Light Design Package
Automatically dimming mirrors
SportDesign steering wheel
Natural leather interior
Total Price* : $135,155 -- Paid $128,400
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Thanks for your input OpionatedOne and everyone else! I live in HK for half of the year and I have the same problem. The importers mark up the prices, because people are willing to pay more for the cars and there is almost a 100% tax on foreign cars. (for example, my G55 was close to $230,000 ). So I feel your pain...
I finally made a decision and decided to go crazy. I built it as "keeper" and intend to keep the car after my lease terms is over. Thank you everyone for your thoughts and opinions in helping me make the right decision! **EricP, I hope you don't mind me copying your color combination!
911 Carrera S
Burmester(R) Audio Package P3A
Exterior Color
Platinum Silver Metallic 1H
Espresso natural leather interior
Electric folding exterior mirrors
ParkAssist (front and rear)
Porsche Ceramic Composite Brakes (PCCB)
Porsche Dynamic Chassis Control (PDCC)
Sport Exhaust System
Sport Chrono Package
Porsche Doppelkupplung (PDK)
Wheels
20-inch Carrera Classic wheel
Wheel center caps with colored Porsche Crest
Wheel spacers, 5 mm
Seat belts in Guards Red
Seat heating (front)
Light Design Package
Automatically dimming mirrors
SportDesign steering wheel
Natural leather interior
Total Price* : $135,155 -- Paid $128,400
). So I feel your pain...I finally made a decision and decided to go crazy. I built it as "keeper" and intend to keep the car after my lease terms is over. Thank you everyone for your thoughts and opinions in helping me make the right decision! **EricP, I hope you don't mind me copying your color combination!
911 Carrera S
Burmester(R) Audio Package P3A
Exterior Color
Platinum Silver Metallic 1H
Espresso natural leather interior
Electric folding exterior mirrors
ParkAssist (front and rear)
Porsche Ceramic Composite Brakes (PCCB)
Porsche Dynamic Chassis Control (PDCC)
Sport Exhaust System
Sport Chrono Package
Porsche Doppelkupplung (PDK)
Wheels
20-inch Carrera Classic wheel
Wheel center caps with colored Porsche Crest
Wheel spacers, 5 mm
Seat belts in Guards Red
Seat heating (front)
Light Design Package
Automatically dimming mirrors
SportDesign steering wheel
Natural leather interior
Total Price* : $135,155 -- Paid $128,400
great build
I"m not a very big fan of the PCCB's but the rest is pure heaven. All the best.
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I had a GTS PTS slate gray loved it! absolutely great around town car! but it in no way compares to the 991!!!! I traded it instantly for the 991 s ... btw had it on track 3 times so far and the are very respectable on the track!
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I read most of this thread. I have to say the 991 is a nice car and it is the way forward whether we like it or not since none of us have control over Porsche board decisions.
I bought a new 2011 GTS this past summer. I will post pics below. I knew the 991 was coming and saw the press release pics and did as much reading as possible. I also knew the GTS would be the best 997 and the last of an era. I opted for the GTS based on what I saw of the 991.
On Friday I brought my GTS to the dealer for service and got to see the 991 in the flesh for the first time. To me the size difference was clearly noiticeable. Noticeably wider, longer in body, longer in wheel base and lower. To me it dwarfed the 997.
While there is no denyng the 991 has advanced the performance envelope, its laughable that anyone here (well most any of us) could really tap the performance differential. The vast majority of us can't tap the full performance potential of a 997.1 no less a GTS. Come on, who are you kidding?
Buckwheat is dead on. There are many that opted for the GTS or other 997 knowing the 991 was ready to launch and made a deliberate decision to do so.
Here is my take. The 991 is nice. But...there are some legitimate criticisms even noted by Evo reviewers.
I don't like the bulbous headlights. It does arguably have a look of a Panamera offspring. The view over the front bonnet is reminesent of a 914 with the front pontoons now converging in an angular high point as they curve down towards the front. The front Panameria console is objectionable to me. Don't like it. Sorry. Reminds me of my wife's Ranger Rover Sport. The dash juts much further out towards the base of the windscreen yet is lower. Different. The electric E brake is...well new... and fits perfectly with all the new techo wizardry including the new key fob. No more traditional key.
The interior is nice though. But so is the 997 interior. Don't see much difference except for size. Although I have to say the size difference inside wasn't quite as striking to me as the exterior size difference. To me the car was now "big" though.
The 997 interior was definitely smaller and the console clearly more traditionally sports car like. Overall the 997 was more intimate inside. Up close and personal. The 991 was more refined and slick even down to the new "G force" meter ....which I thought was cool though.
Out on the road, I drove the car for about a 1/2 hour on highway and the twisties I could feel the wider front track. The steering was not as communicative however and was a little numb off center. The ride was very GTSish suspension wise. I drove an "S". The power and performance was on par with the GTS. The GTS was more raw in feel and more mechanical in feel beginning wtth the now antiquated hand brake. The exhaust note I have to say was great. But so is the exhaust note on my GTS with PSE and a fabspeed X pipe.
The 991 had a more high performance Grand tourer feel to it. My wife said it reminded her of a Jag. Nothing wrong with a Jag but the strectched and lowered dimensions and wheelbase and curved lines with that upsweept rear window line do harken to Jag ques. Clearly those ques step away from the traditional 911 Carrera classic stout, upright design ques.
The 991 just wasn't instantly loveable for me when I first saw it. Maybe with time it will grow on me. I hope it does actually. It just didn't get my heart racing like the first time I saw my GTS. An Evo review made the same observation about the 991. Not as instantly loveable as the 997. Is it a great car? Yes. No doubt.
FYI the reviews on Rennlist on the 991 forum are more mixed so not everyone is fawning over the new car. I hope it does well though and continues to improve. I would be eyeing a 991 GTS or GT3 for sure with a 7 speed.
While some say the 991 makes the 997 look dated others might view it differently (like me). Some might say the Shelby Cobra shape is dated or the GT40 shape is dated.
To me those shapes are not dated but are timeless as is the 997 shape.
Believe me I could have gone home with a 991 and left my GTS there on trade but after seeing the 991 in the flesh and driving it, I'm glade I got my GTS. The best of the last of the Mohicans.
Just say'n and just wanted to correct to the record to note not all 997 owners are sorry we have 997s now that the 991 is here. Not by a long shot so no need to feel sorry for us.
I bought a new 2011 GTS this past summer. I will post pics below. I knew the 991 was coming and saw the press release pics and did as much reading as possible. I also knew the GTS would be the best 997 and the last of an era. I opted for the GTS based on what I saw of the 991.
On Friday I brought my GTS to the dealer for service and got to see the 991 in the flesh for the first time. To me the size difference was clearly noiticeable. Noticeably wider, longer in body, longer in wheel base and lower. To me it dwarfed the 997.
While there is no denyng the 991 has advanced the performance envelope, its laughable that anyone here (well most any of us) could really tap the performance differential. The vast majority of us can't tap the full performance potential of a 997.1 no less a GTS. Come on, who are you kidding?
Buckwheat is dead on. There are many that opted for the GTS or other 997 knowing the 991 was ready to launch and made a deliberate decision to do so.
Here is my take. The 991 is nice. But...there are some legitimate criticisms even noted by Evo reviewers.
I don't like the bulbous headlights. It does arguably have a look of a Panamera offspring. The view over the front bonnet is reminesent of a 914 with the front pontoons now converging in an angular high point as they curve down towards the front. The front Panameria console is objectionable to me. Don't like it. Sorry. Reminds me of my wife's Ranger Rover Sport. The dash juts much further out towards the base of the windscreen yet is lower. Different. The electric E brake is...well new... and fits perfectly with all the new techo wizardry including the new key fob. No more traditional key.
The interior is nice though. But so is the 997 interior. Don't see much difference except for size. Although I have to say the size difference inside wasn't quite as striking to me as the exterior size difference. To me the car was now "big" though.
The 997 interior was definitely smaller and the console clearly more traditionally sports car like. Overall the 997 was more intimate inside. Up close and personal. The 991 was more refined and slick even down to the new "G force" meter ....which I thought was cool though.
Out on the road, I drove the car for about a 1/2 hour on highway and the twisties I could feel the wider front track. The steering was not as communicative however and was a little numb off center. The ride was very GTSish suspension wise. I drove an "S". The power and performance was on par with the GTS. The GTS was more raw in feel and more mechanical in feel beginning wtth the now antiquated hand brake. The exhaust note I have to say was great. But so is the exhaust note on my GTS with PSE and a fabspeed X pipe.
The 991 had a more high performance Grand tourer feel to it. My wife said it reminded her of a Jag. Nothing wrong with a Jag but the strectched and lowered dimensions and wheelbase and curved lines with that upsweept rear window line do harken to Jag ques. Clearly those ques step away from the traditional 911 Carrera classic stout, upright design ques.
The 991 just wasn't instantly loveable for me when I first saw it. Maybe with time it will grow on me. I hope it does actually. It just didn't get my heart racing like the first time I saw my GTS. An Evo review made the same observation about the 991. Not as instantly loveable as the 997. Is it a great car? Yes. No doubt.
FYI the reviews on Rennlist on the 991 forum are more mixed so not everyone is fawning over the new car. I hope it does well though and continues to improve. I would be eyeing a 991 GTS or GT3 for sure with a 7 speed.
While some say the 991 makes the 997 look dated others might view it differently (like me). Some might say the Shelby Cobra shape is dated or the GT40 shape is dated.
To me those shapes are not dated but are timeless as is the 997 shape.
Believe me I could have gone home with a 991 and left my GTS there on trade but after seeing the 991 in the flesh and driving it, I'm glade I got my GTS. The best of the last of the Mohicans.
Just say'n and just wanted to correct to the record to note not all 997 owners are sorry we have 997s now that the 991 is here. Not by a long shot so no need to feel sorry for us.
Last edited by Waxer; Mar 4, 2012 at 07:10 PM.
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Waxer ... i think its great you love the GTS! i have driven and owned several 997s 996s 993 964's .. the 991 has performed more than expected.. I cant believe the feel of the car,, i hope you get the chance yo drive a 991 on the track! i know it was awesome today the back end hanging out at ove 100 mph it was balanced and strong @ 146 mp it was stable not the jittery wandering of the 997,,, braking under full threshold was straight and strong not wavering...