The new 991 C4S!!
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Wow guys some awesome posts!
OK I absolutely love these shots, they don't just show that extra 1.7" makes a difference but also how different the shape of the arch/fender is compared to the C2/S.
Man am I happy I stuck with it, pfewwwwwy that was close!!
As to being the first on 6 to actually drive a C4S...CONGRATS! you lucky dog!!
How does it look in real life, impressions...
What's the handling like...
I read that the C4/S has thicker/stiffer anti-roll bars than the C2/S which some reviewers have attributed the "better handling" to... however it would theoretically (and from previous experience) also make the ride a bit harder... too hard?
How does the awd system feel?
Spill the beans Gregor!!!
One thing is for sure... these wheels can use use some 14mm spacer, that'll make the rear end look even wider!
OK I absolutely love these shots, they don't just show that extra 1.7" makes a difference but also how different the shape of the arch/fender is compared to the C2/S.
Man am I happy I stuck with it, pfewwwwwy that was close!!
As to being the first on 6 to actually drive a C4S...CONGRATS! you lucky dog!!
How does it look in real life, impressions...
What's the handling like...
I read that the C4/S has thicker/stiffer anti-roll bars than the C2/S which some reviewers have attributed the "better handling" to... however it would theoretically (and from previous experience) also make the ride a bit harder... too hard?
How does the awd system feel?
Spill the beans Gregor!!!
One thing is for sure... these wheels can use use some 14mm spacer, that'll make the rear end look even wider!
Last edited by Psycho Sid; Nov 13, 2012 at 01:51 PM.
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Hi!
The car had only about 8 miles on the odometer so I did not drive it too hard.
I had a C2S for the weekend and a 1 hour test drive with the C4 on Monday morning.
There is no difference in feel between C2 and C4 ... will say the C4 is not boring or awd-like .... o.k. the roads were dry ... so the front wheels had not so much to do ..... and I drove not very fast.
The C4 had no PASM ..... but I remember that I thought that its pretty harsh without PASM .... much stiffer than C2 with PASM in normal mode.
Hmmm ... are you right ... on the C4´s the anti roll bars are stiffer than in C2 ?
Hmmm ... I had really a hard decision about ticking the box for SPASM or not.
I did it finally .. but if you´re right and the C4 is stiffer by standard ... maybe the SPASM is way too stiff for me .... arrghhhhh ...
Or can someone confirm that C2 without PASM is always more harsh than PASM in normal mode ... ?
The look of the C4 car is amazing .... the stance looks lower as on the C2 counterparts .... even with same suspension .... and the night design of the rear is like "science fiction" ;-)
Best
Gregor
The car had only about 8 miles on the odometer so I did not drive it too hard.
I had a C2S for the weekend and a 1 hour test drive with the C4 on Monday morning.
There is no difference in feel between C2 and C4 ... will say the C4 is not boring or awd-like .... o.k. the roads were dry ... so the front wheels had not so much to do ..... and I drove not very fast.
The C4 had no PASM ..... but I remember that I thought that its pretty harsh without PASM .... much stiffer than C2 with PASM in normal mode.
Hmmm ... are you right ... on the C4´s the anti roll bars are stiffer than in C2 ?
Hmmm ... I had really a hard decision about ticking the box for SPASM or not.
I did it finally .. but if you´re right and the C4 is stiffer by standard ... maybe the SPASM is way too stiff for me .... arrghhhhh ...
Or can someone confirm that C2 without PASM is always more harsh than PASM in normal mode ... ?
The look of the C4 car is amazing .... the stance looks lower as on the C2 counterparts .... even with same suspension .... and the night design of the rear is like "science fiction" ;-)
Best
Gregor
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Hi!
The car had only about 8 miles on the odometer so I did not drive it too hard.
I had a C2S for the weekend and a 1 hour test drive with the C4 on Monday morning.
There is no difference in feel between C2 and C4 ... will say the C4 is not boring or awd-like .... o.k. the roads were dry ... so the front wheels had not so much to do ..... and I drove not very fast.
The C4 had no PASM ..... but I remember that I thought that its pretty harsh without PASM .... much stiffer than C2 with PASM in normal mode.
Hmmm ... are you right ... on the C4´s the anti roll bars are stiffer than in C2 ?
Hmmm ... I had really a hard decision about ticking the box for SPASM or not.
I did it finally .. but if you´re right and the C4 is stiffer by standard ... maybe the SPASM is way too stiff for me .... arrghhhhh ...
Or can someone confirm that C2 without PASM is always more harsh than PASM in normal mode ... ?
The look of the C4 car is amazing .... the stance looks lower as on the C2 counterparts .... even with same suspension .... and the night design of the rear is like "science fiction" ;-)
Best
Gregor
The car had only about 8 miles on the odometer so I did not drive it too hard.
I had a C2S for the weekend and a 1 hour test drive with the C4 on Monday morning.
There is no difference in feel between C2 and C4 ... will say the C4 is not boring or awd-like .... o.k. the roads were dry ... so the front wheels had not so much to do ..... and I drove not very fast.
The C4 had no PASM ..... but I remember that I thought that its pretty harsh without PASM .... much stiffer than C2 with PASM in normal mode.
Hmmm ... are you right ... on the C4´s the anti roll bars are stiffer than in C2 ?
Hmmm ... I had really a hard decision about ticking the box for SPASM or not.
I did it finally .. but if you´re right and the C4 is stiffer by standard ... maybe the SPASM is way too stiff for me .... arrghhhhh ...
Or can someone confirm that C2 without PASM is always more harsh than PASM in normal mode ... ?
The look of the C4 car is amazing .... the stance looks lower as on the C2 counterparts .... even with same suspension .... and the night design of the rear is like "science fiction" ;-)
Best
Gregor
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Hi!
The car had only about 8 miles on the odometer so I did not drive it too hard.
I had a C2S for the weekend and a 1 hour test drive with the C4 on Monday morning.
There is no difference in feel between C2 and C4 ... will say the C4 is not boring or awd-like .... o.k. the roads were dry ... so the front wheels had not so much to do ..... and I drove not very fast.
The C4 had no PASM ..... but I remember that I thought that its pretty harsh without PASM .... much stiffer than C2 with PASM in normal mode.
Hmmm ... are you right ... on the C4´s the anti roll bars are stiffer than in C2 ?
Hmmm ... I had really a hard decision about ticking the box for SPASM or not.
I did it finally .. but if you´re right and the C4 is stiffer by standard ... maybe the SPASM is way too stiff for me .... arrghhhhh ...
Or can someone confirm that C2 without PASM is always more harsh than PASM in normal mode ... ?
The look of the C4 car is amazing .... the stance looks lower as on the C2 counterparts .... even with same suspension .... and the night design of the rear is like "science fiction" ;-)
Best
Gregor
The car had only about 8 miles on the odometer so I did not drive it too hard.
I had a C2S for the weekend and a 1 hour test drive with the C4 on Monday morning.
There is no difference in feel between C2 and C4 ... will say the C4 is not boring or awd-like .... o.k. the roads were dry ... so the front wheels had not so much to do ..... and I drove not very fast.
The C4 had no PASM ..... but I remember that I thought that its pretty harsh without PASM .... much stiffer than C2 with PASM in normal mode.
Hmmm ... are you right ... on the C4´s the anti roll bars are stiffer than in C2 ?
Hmmm ... I had really a hard decision about ticking the box for SPASM or not.
I did it finally .. but if you´re right and the C4 is stiffer by standard ... maybe the SPASM is way too stiff for me .... arrghhhhh ...
Or can someone confirm that C2 without PASM is always more harsh than PASM in normal mode ... ?
The look of the C4 car is amazing .... the stance looks lower as on the C2 counterparts .... even with same suspension .... and the night design of the rear is like "science fiction" ;-)
Best
Gregor
OK regarding the ride quality....
I've driven 997, Cayenne and Panamera's... all of them with and without PASM.
In each model line up those with PASM were more comfortable than those without... no doubt.
So based on that alone I would definitely say get the PASM.
The S-PASM... hmmmmmmmmm I'm gonna say Nooooooo
The reason is in the post below....
Cheers!
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For the rest it gets a bit lengthy fellas and if I'm wrong on this (which I hope I am!!) please chime in.
Lets start with a copy/paste of a recent review... section in red pertains to the C4/S sway bars.
Being the precision-obsessed science project it can sometimes be – whether with aficionados, private racers or the car's Weissach engineers – the 911 has received myriad chassis tweaks that differentiate these four-wheel drivers from the rear-wheel-drive models, and also the Carrera 4S from the Carrera 4 version. Suffice it to say that the front toe-in and camber are both set up more aggressively on the S models with the standard 20-inch set – Pirelli P Zero, 245/35 ZR20 91Y front and 305/30 ZR20 103Y rear. The other key change has to do with the larger diameter front and rear anti-roll bars on the S models, those on the rear of the Carrera 4S being larger diameter still than those on the Carrera 4. The end effect here versus the Carrera 2 or Carrera 2S is simply greater overall stability and responsiveness, and better hook-up whenever needed.
To put that in context...
The technical specs for the anti-roll bars of the 991 C2 with or without PASM and the C2S (comes standard with PASM) all are 26.8mm x 4mm, with Sport PASM it's 28mm x 4mm.
Now from what I understand the C4 has the same anti-roll bars as the C2/S with S-PASM 28mm x 4mm... this would mean that the C4S would have about 30mm x 4mm... and the C4S with Sport PASM (about) a whopping 33mm x 4mm...that is damn stiff!!!
Now take into consideration that the last 2 numbers are an estimation because I have yet to find the specs for the C4/S anti-roll bars... so it could be the specs are different.
It gets a bit confusing but what it comes down to is this...
The hardest "setting" for the C2S is the lightest setting for the C4 and... it's still got a harder settings for the C4S and one harder still for the C4S with S-PASM... holy crap!
Sooooo I think I'm including the PDCC in my order because I'm sure not spending a 180K (tax in) to have another bone jarring ride!!
Sighhhhhh
Lets start with a copy/paste of a recent review... section in red pertains to the C4/S sway bars.
Being the precision-obsessed science project it can sometimes be – whether with aficionados, private racers or the car's Weissach engineers – the 911 has received myriad chassis tweaks that differentiate these four-wheel drivers from the rear-wheel-drive models, and also the Carrera 4S from the Carrera 4 version. Suffice it to say that the front toe-in and camber are both set up more aggressively on the S models with the standard 20-inch set – Pirelli P Zero, 245/35 ZR20 91Y front and 305/30 ZR20 103Y rear. The other key change has to do with the larger diameter front and rear anti-roll bars on the S models, those on the rear of the Carrera 4S being larger diameter still than those on the Carrera 4. The end effect here versus the Carrera 2 or Carrera 2S is simply greater overall stability and responsiveness, and better hook-up whenever needed.
To put that in context...
The technical specs for the anti-roll bars of the 991 C2 with or without PASM and the C2S (comes standard with PASM) all are 26.8mm x 4mm, with Sport PASM it's 28mm x 4mm.
Now from what I understand the C4 has the same anti-roll bars as the C2/S with S-PASM 28mm x 4mm... this would mean that the C4S would have about 30mm x 4mm... and the C4S with Sport PASM (about) a whopping 33mm x 4mm...that is damn stiff!!!
Now take into consideration that the last 2 numbers are an estimation because I have yet to find the specs for the C4/S anti-roll bars... so it could be the specs are different.
It gets a bit confusing but what it comes down to is this...
The hardest "setting" for the C2S is the lightest setting for the C4 and... it's still got a harder settings for the C4S and one harder still for the C4S with S-PASM... holy crap!
Sooooo I think I'm including the PDCC in my order because I'm sure not spending a 180K (tax in) to have another bone jarring ride!!
Sighhhhhh
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To put that in context...
The technical specs for the anti-roll bars of the 991 C2 with or without PASM and the C2S (comes standard with PASM) all are 26.8mm x 4mm, with Sport PASM it's 28mm x 4mm.
Now from what I understand the C4 has the same anti-roll bars as the C2/S with S-PASM 28mm x 4mm... this would mean that the C4S would have about 30mm x 4mm... and the C4S with Sport PASM (about) a whopping 33mm x 4mm...that is damn stiff!!!
Now take into consideration that the last 2 numbers are an estimation because I have yet to find the specs for the C4/S anti-roll bars... so it could be the specs are different.
It gets a bit confusing but what it comes down to is this...
The hardest "setting" for the C2S is the lightest setting for the C4 and... it's still got a harder settings for the C4S and one harder still for the C4S with S-PASM... holy crap!
Sooooo I think I'm including the PDCC in my order because I'm sure not spending a 180K (tax in) to have another bone jarring ride!!
Sighhhhhh
The technical specs for the anti-roll bars of the 991 C2 with or without PASM and the C2S (comes standard with PASM) all are 26.8mm x 4mm, with Sport PASM it's 28mm x 4mm.
Now from what I understand the C4 has the same anti-roll bars as the C2/S with S-PASM 28mm x 4mm... this would mean that the C4S would have about 30mm x 4mm... and the C4S with Sport PASM (about) a whopping 33mm x 4mm...that is damn stiff!!!
Now take into consideration that the last 2 numbers are an estimation because I have yet to find the specs for the C4/S anti-roll bars... so it could be the specs are different.
It gets a bit confusing but what it comes down to is this...
The hardest "setting" for the C2S is the lightest setting for the C4 and... it's still got a harder settings for the C4S and one harder still for the C4S with S-PASM... holy crap!
Sooooo I think I'm including the PDCC in my order because I'm sure not spending a 180K (tax in) to have another bone jarring ride!!
Sighhhhhh
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That said I am adding PDCC to my build though...
I'm looking forward to getting my bud in one of these beauties too... even if I have to drive a 1000km to do so!
Man I'm excited!
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How was the steering feel at slower speeds on 4 vs. 2S? I heard that its much stiffer?
Also, I'm assuming you're in Europe perhaps to be able to get your hands on it at this time?
Thanks for sharing!
-f
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Hi!
Yes - I'm from Germany - located about 80 miles north of Zuffenhausen.
It was a C4 - no C4S - which I test drove. My english is limited - that's why I can't describe my feelings exactly ... I'm missing too much english words ;-(
I try it anyway: While the C4 was more harsh than the C2S, the ride on the C4 at any speeds was woolly (?) - not as precise as the C2S ... but this was maybe more of the new winter tires and not of the missing PASM.
Sid - you're killing me ... I happily thought my order is perfect for me - and now this .... some more days of thinking about cancelling SPASM or not .... maybe I have to ask Porsche themselves ... but until answer arrives my order is closed ... Uarghhh
Steering feel ? I can't remember ... So it should be the same! The C2S had Power steering - great feeling .... I ordered it for sure.
Best
Gregor
Yes - I'm from Germany - located about 80 miles north of Zuffenhausen.
It was a C4 - no C4S - which I test drove. My english is limited - that's why I can't describe my feelings exactly ... I'm missing too much english words ;-(
I try it anyway: While the C4 was more harsh than the C2S, the ride on the C4 at any speeds was woolly (?) - not as precise as the C2S ... but this was maybe more of the new winter tires and not of the missing PASM.
Sid - you're killing me ...
I happily thought my order is perfect for me - and now this .... some more days of thinking about cancelling SPASM or not .... maybe I have to ask Porsche themselves ... but until answer arrives my order is closed ... Uarghhh Steering feel ? I can't remember ... So it should be the same! The C2S had Power steering - great feeling .... I ordered it for sure.
Best
Gregor
Last edited by Sidney1; Nov 13, 2012 at 11:55 PM.
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Hi!
Yes - I'm from Germany - located about 80 miles north of Zuffenhausen.
It was a C4 - no C4S - which I test drove. My english is limited - that's why I can't describe my feelings exactly ... I'm missing too much english words ;-(
I try it anyway: While the C4 was more harsh than the C2S, the ride on the C4 at any speeds was woolly (?) - not as precise as the C2S ... but this was maybe more of the new winter tires and not of the missing PASM.
Sid - you're killing me ... I happily thought my order is perfect for me - and now this .... some more days of thinking about cancelling SPASM or not .... maybe I have to ask Porsche themselves ... but until answer arrives my order is closed ... Uarghhh
Steering feel ? I can't remember ... So it should be the same! The C2S had Power steering - great feeling .... I ordered it for sure.
Best
Gregor
Yes - I'm from Germany - located about 80 miles north of Zuffenhausen.
It was a C4 - no C4S - which I test drove. My english is limited - that's why I can't describe my feelings exactly ... I'm missing too much english words ;-(
I try it anyway: While the C4 was more harsh than the C2S, the ride on the C4 at any speeds was woolly (?) - not as precise as the C2S ... but this was maybe more of the new winter tires and not of the missing PASM.
Sid - you're killing me ...
I happily thought my order is perfect for me - and now this .... some more days of thinking about cancelling SPASM or not .... maybe I have to ask Porsche themselves ... but until answer arrives my order is closed ... Uarghhh Steering feel ? I can't remember ... So it should be the same! The C2S had Power steering - great feeling .... I ordered it for sure.
Best
Gregor
Re; S-PASM... if you get the PDCC it will negate ALL of the negative side effects of the thicker/stiffer anti-roll bars (now replaced by an active hydraulic system), that's why most whom get S-PASM take the option which has the PDCC including S-PASM... a bit costly but the best of both worlds (performance and comfort).
The anti-roll bars are tuned to the weight of the vehicle, the type of suspension and the amount of body-flex (the C4/S cabs have even stiffer anti-roll bars still, hence no S-PASM on cabs).
C2 = 24N/mm
C2/S (PASM) = 28N/mm
C2S + S-PASM = 33N/mm
The C2 without PASM is the softest but because it doesn't have active suspension, the ride is actually harsher on 19" rims than the C2/S with active suspension on 20" rims.
Now when it comes to S-PASM you'll see that the spring rates and the anti-roll bars jump up quiet a bit but strangely enough the ride does not get that much harsher (probably due to the active suspension and the fact that the 991 has 5mm more upright suspension travel than the 997).
But like I said, for those which want the extra comfort AND extra performance from their suspension set up Porsche offers the S-PASM in combination with the PDCC... that's what I would do
If it's too late to change your build... you can always replace the anti-roll bars for the 26.8mm ones (thinner/softer) should you find that the ride is too harsh.
You'll have a bit more body roll but that's small trade-off.
Hope that helps.
Cheers!
btw when is your build/delivery scheduled and what options did you get...
Last edited by Psycho Sid; Nov 14, 2012 at 01:17 AM.
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Hi Sid!
I ordered end of October ( changed some items last weekend ) ... production late December .... pick-up in Zuffenhausen 15th of February.
here my build:
C4S PDK agate grey
carrera S wheel
wheels painted Platinum
wheel spacers 5mm
full leather black
power Sport seats 14-way
Bose Audio
PDLS
TPMS ( an extra in Germany )
seat heating
seat ventilation
light design package
electric sunroof
electric folding exterior mirrors
automatically dimming mirrors
deletion of model designation
parkassist ( front + rear )
wing mirror lower part painted
PASM Sport suspension
power steering plus
sport chrono package
sport exhaust system
steering wheel heating
instrument dials in black
multifunction steering wheel
interior package in leather
center console in leather
storage compartment lid with Porsche crest
porsche crest on headrests
PCM ( an extra in Germany )
telephone modul
online services
That´s it .....
Best
Gregor
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and I'm in the first batch for it!
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Fester, they are on hold for your build till you call in and add another 'last minute' option. I am thinking seat back painted in GT silver will warp it up nicely.