Advice on possible 991 4S build
#16
10-15-2012, 09:05 AM
@VikingMariner Thanks for the links, those are interesting pages. To be honest, I don't think that Porsche pushes the comfort angle in their talking points with the press or to many of their field reps. While I provided the disclaimer in my previous post because I don't own a SPASM/PDCC 991, I have driven such equipped cars in both the dealer and "Porsche World Road Show" settings. In neither place was comfort brought up, but perhaps one should expect PDS employees running the road show to put more value in the performance potential of PDCC 
#17
10-15-2012, 09:36 AM
OK I'll bite.... to say that PDCC corners flatter and at the same time that it has no impact on the ride quality... well that "right and "wrong" cancel each-other out... because not only does it demonstrate you have no actual knowledge of how it works, you also don't have the basic info regarding what the "active" PDCC system replaces or why (stiffer sway bars are used for performance making the ride hard, vise versa, etc. etc..).
Same with the SPASM drop .4"... you know one element and then proceed to make assumptions which would normally apply to non sport car type vehicles because their margins for bottoming out, clearance etc. are higher than on a Porsche.
Now add the overhang factor and degrees of approach and .4" becomes .8' real quick...
A 991 with SPASM will bottom out on the same spot a 991 without won't.
If you've got a huge gap (non sport car) in the wheel-well .4" is not noticeable (maybe less than 9%)... if you have a much smaller gap (991) than .04" (lets say close to 23%) becomes much more visually apparent.
But oddly enough it won't feel that much stiffer even thought the spring rates are MUCH higher, which is why many will be inclined to order the PDCC when they want to get the SPASM...
I could go on but given your disposition towards defending your inaccurate advice... well, I'll just leave it at that.
#18
10-15-2012, 10:06 AM
@VikingMariner Thanks for the links, those are interesting pages. To be honest, I don't think that Porsche pushes the comfort angle in their talking points with the press or to many of their field reps. While I provided the disclaimer in my previous post because I don't own a SPASM/PDCC 991, I have driven such equipped cars in both the dealer and "Porsche World Road Show" settings. In neither place was comfort brought up, but perhaps one should expect PDS employees running the road show to put more value in the performance potential of PDCC
As many 997 owners could not imagine buying a 997 with PASM, I feel the same about PDCC for greater control in cornering and stops/launches. Just my two cents, speaking as someone that has had only a month to play with the system and adapt my driving to it.
Last edited by VikingMariner; 10-15-2012 at 10:30 AM.
#19
10-15-2012, 10:26 AM
The lack of thanks to you was not an intentional slight, so "Thanks!" for these posts and the many others from you I've read while lurking. Apologies to OP for derailing his thread with this sideshow. Best of luck with your build. One thing I do know enough to speak on, Porsche makes an absolutely fabulous car even before you start adding options. I'm sure you'll have a great car however you decide to config it!
#20
10-15-2012, 03:04 PM
Sid, with due respect, you're swinging at ghosts. I gladly thanked Nova & Viking for the informative replies. My reply to you was a poor attempt at a cheeky response to your overly dismissive reply. Meant only humor, not to bait. The lack of thanks to you was not an intentional slight, so "Thanks!" for these posts and the many others from you I've read while lurking.
Apologies to OP for derailing his thread with this sideshow. Best of luck with your build. One thing I do know enough to speak on, Porsche makes an absolutely fabulous car even before you start adding options. I'm sure you'll have a great car however you decide to config it!
The lack of thanks to you was not an intentional slight, so "Thanks!" for these posts and the many others from you I've read while lurking. Apologies to OP for derailing his thread with this sideshow. Best of luck with your build. One thing I do know enough to speak on, Porsche makes an absolutely fabulous car even before you start adding options. I'm sure you'll have a great car however you decide to config it!
Re; being "overly dismissive" I actually thought I was doing the opposite by engaging your post... perhaps not what you wanted to hear but I stand by what I said and think I was fairly detailed in my explanation why.
No one person knows it all but the waters we wade through here on 6 are full of info, knowledge and experience.... overall an excellent resource, hence my comment re; not letting the waters get too muddy with dispersement of advice based on conjecture, assumptions, speculations or partial info...
Anyway judging from his post the OP seems to know his stuff already so no harm no foul.
Glad you where able to get some useful info.
#21
10-15-2012, 05:06 PM
@airportrat: Thanks for the input. I'm not to sure about the power steering plus. I do LOVE good sound (Burmester... yum). This car's gonna be so expensive I really don't wanna compromise on power. So, I'm not too into cutting options to save on cost. Of course I don't want to pay a ton for stuff I don't really care about. So, bottom line, config is one issue; getting the best price for that config is a different issue.
@Rocket_boy: Thanks for the pricing feedback. I'm really not too sure what to expect for a discount, but I am fundamentally opposed to paying MSRP. I agree I don't want to play the dealer games all day to whittle a few bucks of the deal. Maybe I should shoot for 5% but be wiling to settle for 3%. Since I have to drive at least 400 miles to get to any Porsche dealer I can shop around some and don't feel the need to be overly generous; of course, I do expect the dealership to make some coin.
What do you guys think about the PDCC without SPASM?
@Rocket_boy: Thanks for the pricing feedback. I'm really not too sure what to expect for a discount, but I am fundamentally opposed to paying MSRP. I agree I don't want to play the dealer games all day to whittle a few bucks of the deal. Maybe I should shoot for 5% but be wiling to settle for 3%. Since I have to drive at least 400 miles to get to any Porsche dealer I can shop around some and don't feel the need to be overly generous; of course, I do expect the dealership to make some coin.
What do you guys think about the PDCC without SPASM?
Bottom line,....most independent (non-Porsche) writers/reviewers are just not that fond of PDCC. It does reduce body lean at the limit but also imparts an "artificial" type feeling to the suspension. I simply drove both versions (highly suggest you do the same) and found the standard non-PDCC suspension so right, why spend $3500 to mess with an already brilliant (well noted by many writers) setup?
PDCC adds complexity, weight, maintenance (pump, lines, actuators, etc.) and cost with the only potential benefit of being a few seconds faster around a 7~8 minute track course,....not something you won't be doing much I would gather.
IMO,....wait for gen two of it to come out. Just like PASM, PDK, and other Porsche "milestones" all of them were much better in their second & third generations. Spend the savings on something else in the car that you will use and enjoy everyday,....or the bank.
#22
10-15-2012, 05:12 PM
Another non-PDCC driver with no extended experience. lol Amazing. Wait for flying cars too. It will be better than a 991.
Amazing. Wait for flying cars too. It will be better than a 991.
#23
10-15-2012, 06:06 PM
Did you pick Power Steering Plus? Porsche has that listed under performance items also.
It will make your car faster I promise :-)
#25
10-15-2012, 06:13 PM
Re: PDCC adds complexity, weight, maintenance (pump, lines, actuators, etc.) and cost with the only potential benefit of being a few seconds faster around a 7~8 minute track course,....not something you won't be doing much I would gather.
Same thing I heard about PASM in 2005. Yaw. :-) Goodnight.
Same thing I heard about PASM in 2005. Yaw. :-) Goodnight.
#26
10-15-2012, 06:29 PM
And drinkers be drinkin', was it cherry or grape this time?
At least know what you are talking about. PASM is virtually all electronic not highly mechanical like PDCC. A PASM shock weighs a few ounces more than a standard shock, PDCC adds pounds, reportedly close to 60. But keep trying, it is entertaining.
At least know what you are talking about. PASM is virtually all electronic not highly mechanical like PDCC. A PASM shock weighs a few ounces more than a standard shock, PDCC adds pounds, reportedly close to 60. But keep trying, it is entertaining.
#27
10-15-2012, 06:31 PM
Versus how many more horsepower than a 997. Actually kind of boring not entertaining. Again haters be hatin'. It's very obvious and clear and very unnecessary. Please forgive me.
Again haters be hatin'. It's very obvious and clear and very unnecessary. Please forgive me.
Last edited by VikingMariner; 10-15-2012 at 06:33 PM.
#30
10-15-2012, 07:10 PM
Long time lurker, first time player.
I posted for advice on rennlist, but got none. Maybe here?
I currently have an Audi RS5 on order but I'm thinking about switching to a 4S. I live in Western South Dakota. I want the car to be my daily driver 97% of the time. On really heavy snow days I can take one of our 4WD or AWD trucks/SUVs.
Here's my current build plan:
http://www.porsche-code.com/PDU3QHY6
911 Carrera 4S
Burmester® Audio Package P3A
Premium Package Plus P39
Aqua Blue Metallic D2
Black / Platinum Grey leather interior BR
Sunroof in glass 653
Electric folding exterior mirrors 748
ParkAssist (front and rear) 636
Deletion of Model Designation 498
Sport Exhaust System 176
Sport Chrono Package 640
Power Steering Plus 658
Porsche Dynamic Chassis Control (PDCC) 352
Porsche Doppelkupplung (PDK) 250
20-inch SportDesign wheel 428
Wheel center caps with colored Porsche Crest 446
Power Sport Seats (14-way) P06
Smoking package 583
SportDesign steering wheel 840
Two-tone leather interior 970
Online Services UN1
Any thoughts?
Notes:
I specifically did not choose SPASM for better clearance, especially in snow.
I did choose PDCC for maximum ride comfort on rough roads.
I will almost certainly never track the car but I do like to drive fast through the hills.
I would plan to drive the car to places like Denver (about 400 miles away) for long weekends.
I don't really need to carry more than one passenger, but might on occasion squeeze a kid in back.
Whether I go with the 4S or the RS5 I plan to look for a Turbo S in 2 years for my 50th birthday present.
Regarding pricing:
I'm not in a huge hurry.
I plan to shop the bid around and expect to get about 5% off MSRP even though at least one of the nearby dealers in Denver claims they sell all Porsches at MSRP.
Any thoughts on pricing?
Is there any advantage to a dealer losing a sale they might still make several thousand on? Especially when I'm coming from out-of-state and won't have ready access to the dealership? Do they lose allocation slots are can they sell as many as they want?
Thanks in advance,
Jeff
I posted for advice on rennlist, but got none. Maybe here?
I currently have an Audi RS5 on order but I'm thinking about switching to a 4S. I live in Western South Dakota. I want the car to be my daily driver 97% of the time. On really heavy snow days I can take one of our 4WD or AWD trucks/SUVs.
Here's my current build plan:
http://www.porsche-code.com/PDU3QHY6
911 Carrera 4S
Burmester® Audio Package P3A
Premium Package Plus P39
Aqua Blue Metallic D2
Black / Platinum Grey leather interior BR
Sunroof in glass 653
Electric folding exterior mirrors 748
ParkAssist (front and rear) 636
Deletion of Model Designation 498
Sport Exhaust System 176
Sport Chrono Package 640
Power Steering Plus 658
Porsche Dynamic Chassis Control (PDCC) 352
Porsche Doppelkupplung (PDK) 250
20-inch SportDesign wheel 428
Wheel center caps with colored Porsche Crest 446
Power Sport Seats (14-way) P06
Smoking package 583
SportDesign steering wheel 840
Two-tone leather interior 970
Online Services UN1
Any thoughts?
Notes:
I specifically did not choose SPASM for better clearance, especially in snow.
I did choose PDCC for maximum ride comfort on rough roads.
I will almost certainly never track the car but I do like to drive fast through the hills.
I would plan to drive the car to places like Denver (about 400 miles away) for long weekends.
I don't really need to carry more than one passenger, but might on occasion squeeze a kid in back.
Whether I go with the 4S or the RS5 I plan to look for a Turbo S in 2 years for my 50th birthday present.
Regarding pricing:
I'm not in a huge hurry.
I plan to shop the bid around and expect to get about 5% off MSRP even though at least one of the nearby dealers in Denver claims they sell all Porsches at MSRP.
Any thoughts on pricing?
Is there any advantage to a dealer losing a sale they might still make several thousand on? Especially when I'm coming from out-of-state and won't have ready access to the dealership? Do they lose allocation slots are can they sell as many as they want?
Thanks in advance,
Jeff
You want to design a car that you would love to have. I initially ordered with my heart and then went over the order sheet with my head. As you see from the responses, members are very passionate about their beliefs.
Both sport SPASM and PDCC are desireable but not absolutely required.
I am also nostalgic and prefer a slightly harsher ride and lean in turns.
That is what is great about a Porsche, you design it to your specifications. I went for look and performance.