Excessive options on this $166K 991 C2S?- me thinks so!
#16
07-08-2013, 03:23 PM
When I see some talk about car pricing, and how much they cost in other places - it isn't that one place is better than the other - just different.
The price of this car, in relation to others, seems a bit extreme when comparing a C2S to R8V8 (because cars were both around the same MSRP, etc...).
The fact that you can option a Porsche to about ~60% (or more) of its original price, tells me a lot about the company not changing its annoying pricing model. Count me out for this gen, too.
#17
07-08-2013, 03:29 PM
Regarding the fuel, about $8.00/gallon are normal prices here in Europe... Please feel at least a bit sorry for us poor Europeans
LOLBut Mr.Boon... Let's stay positive... We have the Pyrenees and the Alps and some beautiful roads
BTW, I was a wondering, is the European delivery a free option in the U.S.??? It says $ 0,00 in the configurator. I did find that a bit strange because I have to pay CHF1,000.00 which is about $1,050.00.
Suzy991
#18
07-08-2013, 03:53 PM
Suzy991 - Porsche charges us to get the cars shipped "across the Atlantic". It's not built into the price in any way.
Gas for the 991S was equivalent of $6 US for US gallon on Saturday in Vancouver.
You can believe if European delivery shows as "free" that it's built into the price. Just like the "free" 4 years of service on my BMW 650 Cab. In Canada European delivery is included but there is a $290 cost to have the European maps in the Nav unit.
Gas for the 991S was equivalent of $6 US for US gallon on Saturday in Vancouver.
You can believe if European delivery shows as "free" that it's built into the price. Just like the "free" 4 years of service on my BMW 650 Cab. In Canada European delivery is included but there is a $290 cost to have the European maps in the Nav unit.
#19
07-08-2013, 04:07 PM
Suzy991 - Porsche charges us to get the cars shipped "across the Atlantic". It's not built into the price in any way.
Gas for the 991S was equivalent of $6 US for US gallon on Saturday in Vancouver.
You can believe if European delivery shows as "free" that it's built into the price. Just like the "free" 4 years of service on my BMW 650 Cab. In Canada European delivery is included but there is a $290 cost to have the European maps in the Nav unit.
Gas for the 991S was equivalent of $6 US for US gallon on Saturday in Vancouver.
You can believe if European delivery shows as "free" that it's built into the price. Just like the "free" 4 years of service on my BMW 650 Cab. In Canada European delivery is included but there is a $290 cost to have the European maps in the Nav unit.
$6 is indeed a higher price than I expected.
Regarding that the European delivery is in the price may be, but still the U.S. prices are between 30 and 40% cheaper than on the German homemarket, which is in fact the cheapest European market.
I'll bring that point up when I'm at my dealership the next time. It should be free if you pay $210,000 for a car IMO They can give it for free to me, otherwise I cancel my order and buy a Ferrari or something like that!
(sometimes you have to bluff) LOLThanks for the info
Suzy991
#20
07-08-2013, 04:14 PM
Yes gas in British Columbia (Canada) is extremely expensive. Almost 40% more than in Washington state which adjoins BC. When you configure a car on the Canadian site is show something like $1100 for shipping to Canada. Then another $900 is added for what seems to be the train ride across the country.
One thing that most people forget. In Europe, at least most countries, the VAT is included at whatever the countries pricing shows. Here in BC we get the joy of paying an additional 15% in local taxes on any car selling for more than $50k. If under that then only (?) 12%. Of this amount only 5% is a VAT type of tax but then recovery if car used for business of the VAT tax is 5% of the first $30k. We do not pay any gas guzzler tax on the 991. As far as I know the various states in the US (most of them) have sales taxes that are on top of the advertised car price also. You have to compare the tax in price in both jurisdictions to do a fair comparison. Another issue is Import Duties. I think it's 2.9% in the US and it's 6.1% in Canada. This is built into the pricing showing on the configurator.
One thing that most people forget. In Europe, at least most countries, the VAT is included at whatever the countries pricing shows. Here in BC we get the joy of paying an additional 15% in local taxes on any car selling for more than $50k. If under that then only (?) 12%. Of this amount only 5% is a VAT type of tax but then recovery if car used for business of the VAT tax is 5% of the first $30k. We do not pay any gas guzzler tax on the 991. As far as I know the various states in the US (most of them) have sales taxes that are on top of the advertised car price also. You have to compare the tax in price in both jurisdictions to do a fair comparison. Another issue is Import Duties. I think it's 2.9% in the US and it's 6.1% in Canada. This is built into the pricing showing on the configurator.
Last edited by Snowczar; 07-08-2013 at 04:20 PM.
#21
07-08-2013, 04:33 PM
Yes gas in British Columbia (Canada) is extremely expensive. Almost 40% more than in Washington state which adjoins BC. When you configure a car on the Canadian site is show something like $1100 for shipping to Canada. Then another $900 is added for what seems to be the train ride across the country.
One thing that most people forget. In Europe, at least most countries, the VAT is included at whatever the countries pricing shows. Here in BC we get the joy of paying an additional 15% in local taxes on any car selling for more than $50k. If under that then only (?) 12%. Of this amount only 5% is a VAT type of tax but then recovery if car used for business of the VAT tax is 5% of the first $30k. We do not pay any gas guzzler tax on the 991. As far as I know the various states in the US (most of them) have sales taxes that are on top of the advertised car price also. You have to compare the tax in price in both jurisdictions to do a fair comparison. Another issue is Import Duties. I think it's 2.9% in the US and it's 6.1% in Canada. This is built into the pricing showing on the configurator.
One thing that most people forget. In Europe, at least most countries, the VAT is included at whatever the countries pricing shows. Here in BC we get the joy of paying an additional 15% in local taxes on any car selling for more than $50k. If under that then only (?) 12%. Of this amount only 5% is a VAT type of tax but then recovery if car used for business of the VAT tax is 5% of the first $30k. We do not pay any gas guzzler tax on the 991. As far as I know the various states in the US (most of them) have sales taxes that are on top of the advertised car price also. You have to compare the tax in price in both jurisdictions to do a fair comparison. Another issue is Import Duties. I think it's 2.9% in the US and it's 6.1% in Canada. This is built into the pricing showing on the configurator.
I know that VAT is included in our prices and it varies per country. In Switzerland it is only 8% and there is an import tax of 4%. On top of that there is a sort of eco-tax but I don't know exactly how that works to be honest. It depends on the CO2 as far as I know. Holland as a compareble system, but is a lot more expensive.
German VAT is 19%. But even if I compare prices excluding VAT there are such huge price differences, even between European countries.
In fact I know that a lot of swiss people buy there Porsche in Stuttgart and import the car themselves. Downside is that the depreciation on those cars is a lot higher than original swiss sold cars.
But to be honest... Allthough I know that I pay a lot more than for example in the U.S., it isn't gonna ruin my excitement and satisfaction when I finally have my car. I'm gonna enjoy every little moment with my P-baby
Suzy991
#23
07-08-2013, 09:21 PM
I went fairly crazy on my build after thinking about it for a long time, losing a job and getting another, watching a close family member perish to cancer at a very young age. I won't spend a minute in regret, life is too short, if you can, get what you want, most of us have worked very hard for this. For those of us that feel our cars are an important part of our lives and not just a conveyance, cheers! (I still don't understand why dealers don't order the exterior paint package when they get PTS)
My build below, no sunroof or PCCB's, but somehow I still got the price up there, with items I think I will appreciate, hopefully for some time.
The car is built and now on it's way here, can't wait, well actually I have become pretty good at that.
Also, while great cars in their own right, I do not lust for the Turbo or GT3 for my purpose.
I have learned a great deal from this forum and appreciated all of the knowledge share.
Looking forward to my first Porsche,
911 Carrera 4S
Packages
Burmester® Audio Package
P3K
Premium Package Plus i.c.w. Adaptive Sport Seats Plus (18-way)
P3G
Exterior Color
GT Silver Metallic
U2
Interior Color
Natural Leather Interior in Espresso
NE
Exterior
Power folding side mirrors with courtesy lights
748
Window trim in Aluminum (high-gloss)
559
Exterior package painted
DAR
Porsche Dynamic Light System (PDLS)
603
ParkAssist (rear)
635
Deletion of Model Designation
498
Air intake grilles painted
CNF
Rear windshield wiper
425
Performance
Carrera S Powerkit
X51
Porsche Doppelkupplung (PDK)
250
Porsche Dynamic Chassis Control (PDCC)
352
Wheels
20-inch SportTechno wheel
XRT
Wheel Accessories
Wheels painted Black
XDA
Interior
Adaptive Sport Seats Plus (18-way) with Memory Package
P07
Seat belts in Silver Grey
XSH
Luggage net in passenger footwell
581
Smoking package
583
Interior Leather
Air vents in leather
CTK
Sport Seats Plus backrests shell in leather
XWK
SportDesign steering wheel
840
Center console trim in leather
XHB
Porsche Crest on headrests
XSC
PCM package in leather
CUR
Steering column casing in leather
XNS
Fuse box cover in leather
CUJ
Rear center tunnel in leather with decorative stitching
XHS
Instrument surround leather
XNG
Additional Interior Package, dashboard in leather
CZW
Belt outlet trim in leather
CTH
Rear-view mirror in leather
CVW
Natural leather interior
998
Interior Aluminum
Door sill guards in stainless steel
X70
Pedals and footrest in Aluminum
EFA
Audio and Communications
Telephone module
666
Voice Control
671
Total Price*
My build below, no sunroof or PCCB's, but somehow I still got the price up there, with items I think I will appreciate, hopefully for some time.
The car is built and now on it's way here, can't wait, well actually I have become pretty good at that.
Also, while great cars in their own right, I do not lust for the Turbo or GT3 for my purpose.
I have learned a great deal from this forum and appreciated all of the knowledge share.
Looking forward to my first Porsche,
911 Carrera 4S
$105,630
Packages
Burmester® Audio Package
P3K
$5,290
Premium Package Plus i.c.w. Adaptive Sport Seats Plus (18-way)
P3G
$2,330
Exterior Color
GT Silver Metallic
U2
$3,140
Interior Color
Natural Leather Interior in Espresso
NE
$5,200
Exterior
Power folding side mirrors with courtesy lights
748
$320
Window trim in Aluminum (high-gloss)
559
$395
Exterior package painted
DAR
$1,815
Porsche Dynamic Light System (PDLS)
603
$0
ParkAssist (rear)
635
$610
Deletion of Model Designation
498
$0
Air intake grilles painted
CNF
$810
Rear windshield wiper
425
$360
Performance
Carrera S Powerkit
X51
$18,320
Porsche Doppelkupplung (PDK)
250
$4,080
Porsche Dynamic Chassis Control (PDCC)
352
$3,160
Wheels
20-inch SportTechno wheel
XRT
$1,355
Wheel Accessories
Wheels painted Black
XDA
$1,635
Interior
Adaptive Sport Seats Plus (18-way) with Memory Package
P07
$3,465
Seat belts in Silver Grey
XSH
$540
Luggage net in passenger footwell
581
$0
Smoking package
583
$0
Interior Leather
Air vents in leather
CTK
$1,710
Sport Seats Plus backrests shell in leather
XWK
$1,870
SportDesign steering wheel
840
$490
Center console trim in leather
XHB
$300
Porsche Crest on headrests
XSC
$285
PCM package in leather
CUR
$2,225
Steering column casing in leather
XNS
$465
Fuse box cover in leather
CUJ
$380
Rear center tunnel in leather with decorative stitching
XHS
$1,190
Instrument surround leather
XNG
$370
Additional Interior Package, dashboard in leather
CZW
$1,710
Belt outlet trim in leather
CTH
$550
Rear-view mirror in leather
CVW
$675
Natural leather interior
998
$0
Interior Aluminum
Door sill guards in stainless steel
X70
$375
Pedals and footrest in Aluminum
EFA
$625
Audio and Communications
Telephone module
666
$265
Voice Control
671
$595
Total Price*
$173,485
#24
07-08-2013, 09:43 PM
Wow - I've never seen one ordered with so much stuff. $67,000 in options!!!! Am I reading this correctly? Was _anything_ left off?
Did the salesperson have too much to drink on a friday afternoon when they ordered this car???
http://sonnen.porschedealer.com/Cadi...47415/info.php
Did the salesperson have too much to drink on a friday afternoon when they ordered this car???
http://sonnen.porschedealer.com/Cadi...47415/info.php
Uh, have you seen Fester's build yet?
#25
07-08-2013, 09:56 PM
Wow - I've never seen one ordered with so much stuff. $67,000 in options!!!! Am I reading this correctly? Was _anything_ left off?
Did the salesperson have too much to drink on a friday afternoon when they ordered this car???
http://sonnen.porschedealer.com/Cadi...47415/info.php
031 - Porsche Dynamic Chassis Control (PDCC) with PASM sport suspension
176 - Sport Exhaust System
250 - Porsche Doppelkupplung (PDK)
427 - 20-inch Carrera Classic wheel
450 - Porsche Ceramic Composite Brakes (PCCB)
509 - Fire Extinguisher
636 - ParkAssist (front and rear)
640 - Sport Chrono Package
653 - Sunroof in glass
658 - Power Steering Plus
748 - Electric folding exterior mirrors
840 - SportDesign steering wheel
911 - Model Designation "911"
AZ - Black leather interior
CAS - Model designation on doors in Black
CGE - Sport Chrono clock dial in Racing Yellow
CLU - Decorative stitching on steering wheel rim in contrasting color
CNL - Wing mirror (lower part) painted
CUR - PCM package in leather
CZW - Additional Interior Package, dashboard in leather
EEJ - Carbon interior package (for leather interior and PDK)
EFA - Pedals and footrest in Aluminum
G0 - Anthracite Brown Metallic
P07 - Adaptive Sport Seats Plus (18-way)
P3A - Burmester® Audio Package
P3G - Premium Package Plus with Adaptive Sport Seats Plus
XAA - Aerokit Cup
XEX - Bi-Xenon headlights in Black with Porsche Dynamic Light System (PDLS)
XFR - Instrument dials in Racing Yellow
XHM - Center console trim in Carbon
XHN - Seat belts in Racing Yellow
XHS - Rear center tunnel in leather with decorative stitching
XNG - Instrument surround leather
XNS - Steering column casing in leather
XRP - Wheel spacers, 5 mm
XUB - Headlight cleaning system cover painted exterior color
XWK - Sport Seats Plus backrests shell in leather
XXD - Door sill guards in carbon, illuminated
XYB - Fuel filler cap with Aluminium Look finish
ZAB - Ornamental Porsche Crest
Did the salesperson have too much to drink on a friday afternoon when they ordered this car???
http://sonnen.porschedealer.com/Cadi...47415/info.php
031 - Porsche Dynamic Chassis Control (PDCC) with PASM sport suspension
176 - Sport Exhaust System
250 - Porsche Doppelkupplung (PDK)
427 - 20-inch Carrera Classic wheel
450 - Porsche Ceramic Composite Brakes (PCCB)
509 - Fire Extinguisher
636 - ParkAssist (front and rear)
640 - Sport Chrono Package
653 - Sunroof in glass
658 - Power Steering Plus
748 - Electric folding exterior mirrors
840 - SportDesign steering wheel
911 - Model Designation "911"
AZ - Black leather interior
CAS - Model designation on doors in Black
CGE - Sport Chrono clock dial in Racing Yellow
CLU - Decorative stitching on steering wheel rim in contrasting color
CNL - Wing mirror (lower part) painted
CUR - PCM package in leather
CZW - Additional Interior Package, dashboard in leather
EEJ - Carbon interior package (for leather interior and PDK)
EFA - Pedals and footrest in Aluminum
G0 - Anthracite Brown Metallic
P07 - Adaptive Sport Seats Plus (18-way)
P3A - Burmester® Audio Package
P3G - Premium Package Plus with Adaptive Sport Seats Plus
XAA - Aerokit Cup
XEX - Bi-Xenon headlights in Black with Porsche Dynamic Light System (PDLS)
XFR - Instrument dials in Racing Yellow
XHM - Center console trim in Carbon
XHN - Seat belts in Racing Yellow
XHS - Rear center tunnel in leather with decorative stitching
XNG - Instrument surround leather
XNS - Steering column casing in leather
XRP - Wheel spacers, 5 mm
XUB - Headlight cleaning system cover painted exterior color
XWK - Sport Seats Plus backrests shell in leather
XXD - Door sill guards in carbon, illuminated
XYB - Fuel filler cap with Aluminium Look finish
ZAB - Ornamental Porsche Crest
I can't wait to buy this car in 5 yrs and let someone else take the deceprciation hit !
#27
07-08-2013, 10:07 PM
The guy who buys a 166K C2S and glances at the used pricing to see 2012 cars asking in 80's and 90's faces competing with the used car market at a huge disadvanatage . Some might say "who cares. i love my car , I worked hard for it .. etc .. yada yada " but my feeling is losing 50-80K a pop can get very old very quickly. Unless the buyer is a) obscenely wealthy , b) young and foolish, or c) old .. making this car the last hurrah .. it's a very expensive purchase which will become dated the moment that the 991.2 S refresh is launched .
#28
07-08-2013, 11:01 PM
Honestly, it's whatever someone is comfortable spending that that is their own concern. FWIW, My build sheet on a C4S (without the Aerokit, mind you) that I've put together is somewhat similar in options to that one at Sonnen- but I've also spec'd the X51 power kit on my sheet. No, I haven't ordered it yet.
Sure I could buy a GT3 for less... and it's a different car. I don't think I want a GT3 for my DD. YMMV. If I was spending 50% of my time on the track with it, that would be a different story. TT? Nice, but no thank you. I want a NA engine.
As far as depreciation, I could care less, as I would not be flipping the car in three years or less. Let's not kid ourselves- ANY new car is going to take a big hit once you drive it off the floor. Part of the lustre of ordering a new car is getting EXACTLY what you want. That would be worth it to me. Now if my plans were to dump the car in 12 mos for the next latest and greatest (and that's not my plan) maybe I'd think differently. IMHO and all that.
Sure I could buy a GT3 for less... and it's a different car. I don't think I want a GT3 for my DD. YMMV. If I was spending 50% of my time on the track with it, that would be a different story. TT? Nice, but no thank you. I want a NA engine.
As far as depreciation, I could care less, as I would not be flipping the car in three years or less. Let's not kid ourselves- ANY new car is going to take a big hit once you drive it off the floor. Part of the lustre of ordering a new car is getting EXACTLY what you want. That would be worth it to me. Now if my plans were to dump the car in 12 mos for the next latest and greatest (and that's not my plan) maybe I'd think differently. IMHO and all that.
Last edited by 1BlinkGone; 07-08-2013 at 11:08 PM.
#29
07-09-2013, 03:59 AM
For $166K, I would wait for a Turbo! Dealer is in Mill Valley, CA...they will sell it. I know that if that car was ordered to stock where I do business that someone would probably lose thier job.
#30
07-09-2013, 04:35 AM
Yes gas in British Columbia (Canada) is extremely expensive. Almost 40% more than in Washington state which adjoins BC. When you configure a car on the Canadian site is show something like $1100 for shipping to Canada. Then another $900 is added for what seems to be the train ride across the country.
One thing that most people forget. In Europe, at least most countries, the VAT is included at whatever the countries pricing shows. Here in BC we get the joy of paying an additional 15% in local taxes on any car selling for more than $50k. If under that then only (?) 12%. Of this amount only 5% is a VAT type of tax but then recovery if car used for business of the VAT tax is 5% of the first $30k. We do not pay any gas guzzler tax on the 991. As far as I know the various states in the US (most of them) have sales taxes that are on top of the advertised car price also. You have to compare the tax in price in both jurisdictions to do a fair comparison. Another issue is Import Duties. I think it's 2.9% in the US and it's 6.1% in Canada. This is built into the pricing showing on the configurator.
One thing that most people forget. In Europe, at least most countries, the VAT is included at whatever the countries pricing shows. Here in BC we get the joy of paying an additional 15% in local taxes on any car selling for more than $50k. If under that then only (?) 12%. Of this amount only 5% is a VAT type of tax but then recovery if car used for business of the VAT tax is 5% of the first $30k. We do not pay any gas guzzler tax on the 991. As far as I know the various states in the US (most of them) have sales taxes that are on top of the advertised car price also. You have to compare the tax in price in both jurisdictions to do a fair comparison. Another issue is Import Duties. I think it's 2.9% in the US and it's 6.1% in Canada. This is built into the pricing showing on the configurator.
, WA is $4.10 today but only 92 with 10% ethanolIn WA state sales tax is 8%, but you can deduct it off your US Federal Tax, so it helps some. OR has no sales tax
see you sunday