you couldn't be more wrong, I'm a car guy who also likes other nice things.
cars are #1 on my list and the only forums I go on--I've been a car guy since I was a kid playing with Hotwheels in the dirt 30 something years ago.
I find it funny that you can judge me by one post on a forum

 

fair enough, maybe I am a little out of touch (I find it funny that 991 Porsche owners are here talking about being in touch with the masses).
I was having a little fun poking at people for being cheap and owning a six figure car (sorry you didn't like my joke, but it is weird IMO). And I didn't mean it so seriously.

I could be wrong, but I bet most people on here are in the same income bracket as me (I'm nothing special, $500-700k a year between my wife an I, big whoop) And I know there's people on here with A LOT more, but I bet very few are scraping by to buy their 991, come on man don't try to paint a picture that isn't there. And if they are, that's cool too, to each their own.

Calling me a d!ck is something coming from you and some of your previous posts, lol

 

Peace... I get it..

I think you would be surprised at the variation in the income range here. But yeah, I'm not sure anyone here is in poverty and barely making ends meet by any means.. And if they are, well then maybe I would agree that they are out of their league and should think about their priorities.

And for the record I wasn't the one who called you a d!ck, lol.. I called you a blowhard Then again you are the one with the Nick Murry quote in your signature.. ..

 

haha, I do identify with Nick's quote and freely admit to sometimes being a d!ck or a$$hole or "insert your favorite insult," but I find that knowing when one is being a d!ck really doesn't qualify for being a true d!ck--those guys have no clue they're being one, hahaha.

Anyway, back to the thread, sorry for the hijack OP--I just can't believe I read the same threads about MPG, insurance, oil change cost I've read for years and years on other boards with much cheaper cars. Maybe I do need a Lambo, I bet those guys never talk about this stuff, probably more about what cologne and ***** pump is best

 

It's never a pleasant result when one is weighed and measured through someone else's prism. The fact that I can afford the cars I drive does not mean that I don't pay attention to my money. As someone else here mentioned, I hope I never forget the value of $400. For me, doing something like that would mean that I have betrayed my values.

 

Having looked forward to having a 911 as a DD since I was a grad student in the late 60's, I purchased a base 991 in 2013 after turning 70. Since I am still employed full-time, I can afford it, but it is a bit of a stretch. I have to prioritize and avoid other expenses that I might otherwise enjoy.


That being said, I just had my oil changed today by the local dealer at a cost of slightly over $300 and was not bothered in the least. Several factory upgrades were done as part of the service and I was given a free Audi A6 loaner for the day. The $600 or so dollars that I have spent on oil changes so far is trivial compared to the approximately $20,000 deprecation that I have experienced during the same time period.


When the warranty on my current 991 is about to expire in two and one-half years, the decision as to whether or not to continue with a 991 as my DD will not be affected by the cost of oil changes.

 

So the original poster thought that $400 is too much for an oil change, and was asking about alternative options or dealers that may be more reasonable. That's a LEGITIMATE question to ask. $400 is too much either way you look at it.

How this has turned into a 5 plus page thread is beyond me. Judging a person on how they choose to spend their money is ridiculous. Spend yours as you may, but it's not your place to judge others what they do with their money.

Most people are able to afford these cars because they actually had the brains to make a good living and be successful. If they hadn't made smart decisions and were free spending drunks then they probably wouldn't have a 991.

It's easy for those who have supposedly "made it" to forget where they came from. And for those that have trust fund money, there are lessons that were probably never learned.

Let's stick to the facts on the real question here. If you want to be the guy/girl with the $5,000 nightclub tab have fun! Don't knock the guy/girl going to the corner bar for a $3.00 beer though.

 

Thank you, this is exactly my point!

 

I really don't think $400 for the oil change is so out of whack.
Most of these higher priced dealers are in metro areas with HUGE overhead and got to charge more for servicing these cars, the volume is not there like other brands. And although $400 maybe be a significant amount of money for an individual, its not for a company. it takes a lot of service and oil changes to pay just the payroll and property taxes at these dealerships.
They ain't getting rich off the sale of the cars, usually. The money is in the service dept always has been. People want these mega dealers and fancy showrooms, but complain when it's time to pay for it.
Sure I want a good deal like the next guy, but not everything can be priced like Walmart, come on guys.

 

So I must not be too smart (or else I'd be on the Turbo forum)...

I just ordered almost 6K in parts from Sunset Porsche (thanks guys!). I saved probably over 3K as opposed to going to my local dealer 3 miles away. Should I just have said, oh well, I don't need an extra 3K in my pocket??

On top of that, bought a PSE. Saved with that too! Like 1K, plus getting it installed for under $500 from a Porsche dealer. I had quotes of over 2K just for install from other dealers.

Unlike others, I'd rather get the exact same items and pay less. If there's something wrong with that so be it! If it makes you feel better over paying for something, go for it. It's your money do as you wish with it! Have fun!

 

Yeah, I'm not buying that one.. The reason dealers can get $400 or whatever is because there is demand. If people didn't pay it then they would either charge less, and if their overhead doesn't support higher prices then that they can figure out how to lower their overhead or go out of business... Plain and simple capitalism and market forces.

I don't place higher value by work done by the dealer especially for trivial things that can be done by a high school kid. Other work I might choose a dealer over and independent, it just depends.

The bottom line is their cost to the dealer is about $80 in parts/material and maybe $50 in labor... so the raw cost is probably about $130.. And if it is like most businesses, they pay someone significantly less to do the grunt jobs like oil changes so it's likely not much above minimum wage paid and not a that of a skilled mechanic. So maybe $15 bucks..

So their margin on a $400 bill is a least $270 probably more depending on how smart they are with their hired labor This doesn't even take into account their opportunity for up sell and the additional sales opportunity to get you looking at a new model in the showroom.

So there is ample margin there to pay the overhead and give them a healthy profit.

As for people wanting the nice showrooms.. I certainly could care less.. when I see such things i just think what a waste.. Hell if I could I would rather buy a car on amazon rather than at a car dealer but that is obviously impractical. But it isn't because I'm cheap it is just because I loath car salesmen and then entire archaic sales process and dance ritual.

However often my understanding is that the dealer showrooms (not Porsche specifically but in general) are often subsidized by the OEM because they are really more of a sales and marketing tool.. Given Porsche margin on 911's I'm sure there is a pretty good budget for that and it is unlikely the service side of the business subsidizes anything at a dealership other than their owner.

Bottom line the higher costs at the dealer are more about capitalism and about about anything that is expense driven. There is nothing wrong with that.. I support capitalism.. but my measure of value is different especially on unskilled tasks like opening watching oil drain into a pan and then pouring new oil back in..

The problem also is there are a lot of us car guys... who spent our youth as motor heads, working and building our cars and understand just how exaggerated so much of the maintenance tasks are. Sure we are older, make more money and not as willing to do it ourselves .. but at the same time we realize this is trival stuff and how and with a modern reliable engine there is almost nothing that needs to be done unless there is a major problem (then we take it in to someone who has the diagnostic equipment required).. But short of that it is just changing the oil, air filters.. Less frequently swapping the brake pads which is incredibly simple as compared to working on drum brakes of yesteryear.

So much of the "inspections" are nothing more than a bunch of checklist items that take 5 minutes and involve looking for things that are leaking.. And in reality are just an opportunity for more up sell and a justification to the uninformed to support the price..

It isn't so much as wanting walmart prices (although I find it a form of entertainment going there, lol) ... maybe more like not wanting to go Sach's to buy the exact same commodity thing that is at Costco or target.

 

Well I must say - what I thought would be an informative read on how to get the a well-priced oil change turned out to be quite a stir. I see places like Suncoast selling maintenance packages. Does anyone have experience about BYOO to the Dealer and them just charging for labor? And to keep the fire burning I can say I feel for both sides in this story. I've wasted a lot of time in my life, on many websites, doing over-thorough comparative shopping to get the best prices when customizing my bikes and pretty much buying anything online. I wouldn't call myself cheap or frugal, but I guess I don't want to be a sheep - also as a NYer, I've been raised from birth to know where to get what at the best price. It's more of a pride thing sorta like Castanza Syndrome. and I interpreted what the future Lambo owner's message to be 'don't waste your time', a bit along the lines of penny-wise and pound-foolish with a big dose of bragging.

But I do sympathize. We are in somewhat of a club - for good and bad, and I've said this before, that maybe some owners/lessees may not have their financial priorities in sensical order. So I thought his comments were really addressing those people, people that should not be spending over $100k on a car if their finances do not merit it. Because while they may be car nuts, maybe they are just getting the car to represent what others would assume of a person driving a Porsche. Pretty much living like it was the 80's, playing wannabe Gordon Gecko.

In most other parts of the world, financing and leases are not prevalent and easy to qualify for as in the US. So I would say that if non-Porsche owners were to read 6speedonline, they would be quite surprised at a lot of the posts, the ones contradicting that owning a Porsche is a measure of success, or the priorities of a successful person.

Things are a bit screwy here, I always thought it a shame that most nice cars were in the hands of those that could just afford them, yet not with driving talent. Seldom do the two come together. In NYC to qualify for a rental building, landlords require you earn a minimum of forty times the monthly rent, you can finance a Porsche easier than living in a decent apartment.

Although it is a capable performance car, it is also marketed and hyped to represent something about a lifestyle. The definition has changed over time from Risky Business to Californication, but there is cache to those that admire from afar. It seems strange that some members live paycheck to paycheck, without fitting the "mold", while spending too much time on an internet forum - is it that kind of club and do McLaren owners talk about the same things? I hope not

 

I don't know, buying my own filter and oil and taking it to the dealer seems kind cheap to me.

Sort of like bringing your own food and drink to a restaurant and asking them to cook it for you.

 

This has been a generally good and insightful discussion. I admit to being in the camp of people who seek-out the best deals and watch how they spend. I don't consider myself a cheap-skate by any measure. I always tip 20%. I have a very nice collection of Polo shirts (I like the "Big Pony")...for whatever that's worth...as well as Kiton and Brioni suits and sportcoats; I also keep a good amount of one dollar bills in my car to give to people who stand on corners asking for help (something I learned from my parish priest) and I set aside a percentage of my earnings for charitable contributions. In sum, I think I'm a fairly normal guy and probably have much in common with folks here.

To the point about the dealer also inspecting the car for the price of an oil change: I paid a dealer $770 for a 1-year service on on my P4S and, for that, I got an oil change, brake fluid flush, fluids check, car wash, and inspection. The inspection was a checklist that resulted in all boxes checked, including "horn". The horn in my P4S sounded weak from day1; but it was there (I could hear it), and the P4S was my first Porsche and I thought that was how horns in Porsches sounded. So, the horn died about a week after this service and I took the car back to this dealer. It turns out that the P4S comes with two horns and only one of them had been working. It was repaired under warranty. I didn't mention the inspection, but I think the service associate knew they had blown-it (no pun) because he was very obsequious towards me. So, I suppose, I'm not totaly sold on this notion that "service value" comes with this price.

 

Agree, that seems tacky.