Again. If you all want to sponsor me, I will be happy to bolt them all on and run it on the dyno.

Marc

 

While not all the bolt-on's have produced dyno numbers, GIAC has been very forthcoming with their claims. You can see from this dyno (measured on a Mustang MD-500) that their gains are throughout the entire powerband. At the lower RPM's, torque gains are as high as 25 lb. ft. to the wheels, something that will definitely be noticed.

The claimed numbers are only the peak-to-peak gains, while gains throughout the powerband are higher than this.

 

These cars have a pretty significant gain in the mid range that is quicte noticeable with our software upgrade. There have been independent reviews of our software posted on this forum stating exactly that and more. On the latest model cars (DFI), what people will notice most is the torque gain, in my opinion. The car does pull harder to redline but unless you're measuring that with trap speeds on the road course or using a vbox, it's not going to be as noticeable (when comparing to a forced induction upgrade).

Additionally, any hardware upgrades that you add the car make software upgrades a requirement. Any gains you would make from the hardware you install will be erased by the torque management in the DME. This is why companies like Champion Motorsport sell their upgrades in conjunction with a GIAC software upgrade.

 

Have you worked with any X51 cars?

 

Yes, we have. The gains are equally impressive.

 

Will you guys offer a tune that will remove cat inefficiency codes for those that want to run catless or hfc's.

Dave

 

Your points are well taken, and I think GIAC in my observation has been more transparent in showing numbers than some of the competitors.. And I also appreciate seeing the Fuel grade used, as that is a scam point that I've seen exploited by more than one company.

But at the end of the day I guess at the end of the day, "significant" is subjective. No argument there there are some gains.. does 10 HP make me feel as if I have to have it? Not really.. Yeah, it looks as if there is a bit of extra torque in the 3K range.. But again, I'm not sure "significant" is how I feel about it.. I'd characterize it as.. incremental.

Understand that I'm not criticizing in any way and I realize your company sells a quality product... Unfortunately many in the industry are not very forthcoming. And in general I've adopted a general rule that whenever I ask a question and I am asked to PM for more info.. I'm done with them..

But compared to the X51, for 30 HP and other more expensive bolt ons, yeah I'd say a good tune that nets me 10 HP and a little torque boost for $1.8K is probably the first step...

But at the end of the day, there is only so much you can really do with a tune on a NA car.. It is more about optimization and removing margins the OEM didn't exploit. And at the same time I also wonder if that is eating into a safety band of some sort for the antiknock at when using lower based on Octane.

I don't know that, but I find it interesting there is a 10HP delta that exactly tracks the HP curve.. That would tend to indicate to me there is some kind of margin that the OEM left in and I would imagine they did it for a reason and not just to create a market for tuners.

Unfortunately whenever I ask these kinds of questions (which may be way off the mark, but then again that's why I ask questions) I immediately get a "marketing response", either because the marketing face of the company doesn't know or as I usually suspect the products are snake oil...

However I will say I've looked at a couple of tune.. before and afters for NA and objectively... I don't see anything I felt was truly significant and I think the throttle mapping has more to do with the perception of lower end than anything. There is definitely a placebo effect as well.. Probably the only way to ever really be sure would be to have two identical 911's and drive them both to see if there is a real world difference.

 

I try to be as transparent as possible because I regard my feedback on the software as just a stepping stone to someone experiencing it for themselves. We offer 30 day money back guarantees on all of our software, because I understand that most everyone's ideas and expectations of what a software upgrade should be are going to vary significantly. Based on that people can take what I say and see if they agree with it, or if I over/understate what the software does. Because there is this type of accountability, I do my best to be as accurate as possible.

In terms of 10hp/tq being significant, it wouldn't be when there is one small blip at one specific point on the powerband. However, when you have a curve shift, it does pretty well to make the vehicle feel as though it has shed some pounds. As to whether this is significant to someone is subjective. Regarding the torque gains being significant, I am not the only one who has noted that on here:

1.) Review here

2.) Review here

OEMs are set under incredibly strict guidelines for federal emissions, anti-failure, etc.... The stress tests they do to guarantee no failure (I believe they aim for a fraction of 1% in terms of failure rates on engines) on these engines is far beyond the abuse that a normal owner will place upon their own car. With that said, it doesn't mean we go buck wild and make the engine susceptible to failure. I think our reputation will precede us in that we make reliable software solutions It simply means that the OEMs do leave power on the table for various reasons. Reasons that we're able to take advantage of.

The best part is that we've rolled out OBD2 flashing on the 991/991S so DMEs no longer need to be sent here to GIAC for programming. This makes taking advantage of our money back guarantee much more convenient because you can be in and out of the dealer quickly with your car flashed on the same day.

 

I would very strongly advise against doing something like that in California.

That said, it is something that we can do.

 

Ill be in touch..I just save the OEM parts and reinstall when it comes time to smog. I would still want to run HFC's.

Dave

 

Austin, do I need to have a crappy windows computer to use the flash loader? Thx

 

Having had tunes and bolt on upgrades I agree with your assessment 100%. Shocking I know. . The gains are mild at best.

In regards to the x51 you get a lot more than 30hp, aside from the fact the engine has significant upgrades, you get the PSE, sport chrono, and 3rd radiator.