With 1K miles on my 991 50th Anniversay car, I finally used the SPORT mode for the first time and quickly noticed about a 20 degree oil temperature drop. It reminded me that I had seen an earlier posting saying this, but had forgotten. I would have preferred to begin breaking in the car with these cooler oil temperatures from the first day (190 - 200) vice 218 - 230 or so. Does anyone know why Porsche would configure it so that in the standard mode temps run a higher - and less desirable - temperature until SPORT mode is activated?

 

Sport mode opens the 3rd radiator. There is absolutely nothing wrong with oil temperature at the levels you mention above. I used Sport and Sport+ when my 991S was new, just stayed under the 4200 RPM. I never, repeat never, go to Sport or Sport + mode until 165' oil temperature reached (as per my technician's suggestion). Otherwise, I'm always in either Sport or Sport+. The car is meant to be "driven".

 

I'd be interested in hearing why the 'no SPORT' until oil temps are at the 165 range. If one drives gently (as I always do) until things are appropriately warm, why should it matter when you switch on to SPORT? I too have always obeyed the 4200 limit until 2K miles on my previous new 997's of every various and am a firm believer it pays dividends in the long run...and at 1K miles on my newest ride, I'm still doing that!

 

I wouldn't necessarily presume that 20 f difference is necessarily more or less desirable as long as it stays within an operational range for the oil. You would be hard pressed to find any real data showing differences in wear or other characteristics over that (20 degree) temp range.

Presumably when in sport/sport+ you are driving harder, thus the additional cooling capability such that when you aren't driving harder the temp remains at the lower end of the range. But all of that is within normal operating range for the oil..

The only time I would really change my behavior in this regard would be if operating in an extreme environment or driving conditions.

The reality is that oil is intended to lubricate, remove contaminates and cool.. as long as the oil remains within it's temperature operating band the variation doesn't matter. 20 degrees cooler does not necessarily = better.

In general I don't like to be hard on the engine until the oil temp has come up to somewhere near operating temperature, so in the morning admittedly sometimes I'll leave the car in normal, just to get it up to temperature a little faster since my house is only a minute or two from the freeway and my morning commute. But other than that, it isn't something to spend a lot of time worrying about.

Also keep in mind that with 9Q in the system, you have about twice as much oil as a typical engine, which tends to preserve the integrity of the oil as well.

I've seen a lot of discussions and threads from people who try to use sport or non-sport modes as a way of manipulating the oil temperature, however I think for the most part it is a waste of time.

Given that the 911's use a water cooled engine I'm generally more concerned with the coolant temperatures than oil (again as long as your oil are in safe range).

Now if we were talking about older air cooled engines, I'd look at oil temp a bit closer..

 

In general it always makes sense to take it easy on a cold engine until the oil temperature (as well as the water temperature) has come up to temperature. Simply since it lubrication properties work best in it's designed operating range.

Putting the car in sport when it is cold just causes it to take a little longer to come up to temperature that's all. But there is nothing inherently bad about sport mode.

As for SPORT vs non-Sport.. There is nothing wrong with driving in sport with a new engine as long as you aren't pushing it super hard. It's the high RPMs that are bad on a new engine.

I drive in Sport usually just because I like the responsiveness during normal commute and driving never come near 4200.


Here's my suggestion during the break in period:
1) Take it easy on the engine but don't baby it..
2) Drive in sport if you feel like it.
3) Don't spend a lot of time listening to the obsessive "experts". The majority of things you hear people professing has no basis. And even if it did the effects are so minuscule, you won't care unless you keep your car for 120K miles anyway.

4) Most importantly enjoy driving your car.. That's you paid so much money. And remember it isn't a fragile china doll.

 

car warms up the same in sport and regular.
at temp, sport opens up another intercooler and car runs cooler at normal speeds. When redlining and with hard driving the car will show 230F and higher at times.

...break in? noooo, not that again. you may either:

drive it like you stole it for those who lease
drive it like Porsche suggested for those who bought

 

In general I agree... And 165 is a reasonable temperature to use for "warmed up"..

However there is nothing inherently bad about going into Sport or Sport+ mode at lower oil temps as long as you aren't driving the car hard until it is warmed up. Although going into sport/sport+ causes it to take a little longer getting up to temperature.

But for example, I drive PDK in manual Sport+ often on my commute to work just driving normally and sanely. I just take it easy until I see the oil temp has come up. I mainly like driving in sport in auto mode or Sport+ in manual not for high performance, but for less sluggish shift and throttle responsiveness..

 

My information is that the 3rd radiator is opened when Sport or Sport+ are selected. Remember that shift mapping of the PDK also changes with the change to the Sportier modes. My technical guy indicates it's best to get to a real operating temperature as soon as possible which also makes sure the PDK is warmed up before getting into the sportier shift mapping.

 

This is all true..

But again, there is a presumption that you are going to drive the car harder built into the "rule of thumb" of not using sport /sport+ until warmed up. The issue isn't which mode the car is in but how the car is being driven.

If you aren't driving it harder then it really doesn't matter. When driving lightly there is no significantly more wear/stress in the PDK or engine. (not in practical terms).

In either case (normal or Sport) you shouldn't drive the car hard until warmed up.

Thus the argument: Why bother waiting until warmed up until pushing the console button? (only argument I've found that makes sense is since you have the third cooler it takes a couple of minutes longer possibly to get to temp).

Also consider if it really were important for some electro/mechanical reason to absolutely not be in sport mode... then it would be fairly simply for the effects of sport mode to be inhibited by the ECUs until the "safe" temperature is achieved.

And in some case I believe this is already the case. I've noticed that when cold there are other performance aspects of the engine that behave a bit differently until warmed up. The shifts in sport don't seem as crisp or sharp.. So I suspect all the benefits of staying in normal are being done for me automatically.

 

Most base and S cars don't have a 3rd radiator...just on the 50th and on cars in hot climates. Perhaps sport mode toggles it as well...but recognize that the 3rd radiator is for COOLANT, not oil.

For oil, the fan on the oil intercooler turns on when Sport is selected to assist with further airflow on the intercooler, and reduce temperature.

 

I have noticed that if I put mine in Sport+ immediately after starting the car nothing happens until the temp reaches a specific temperature. It is like driving the car in normal mode even thought I put in Sport+. Once it hits the right temperature it starts behaving as it should in Sport+. Does anyone notice this? I have a 2013 C4S X51.

Thanks.

 

I've noticed similar behavior.

It certainly doesn't wait until 165 deg F but it does wait until the temp comes up a little. Probably over 100..

I don't drive in Sport+ PDK auto (only manual) so it is hard to tell there, but in Sport auto what you described is exactly what happens. The shifts points are more conservative.

 

+1. Activating Sport/Sport+ doesn't immediately change the settings if it's a cold start. It takes a while until it all kicks in. The most obvious indicator is the low idle RPM.

 

Yeah I suspect there is most likely temperature and pressure monitoring that goes on in several areas (water temp, oil temp, trans fluid temp) and decisions are made as to how the engine behaves. Which is why I believe all the ninny'ing people do about not using this mode until whatever condition is a waste of time.. In reality the engine is smarter than they are.. Really the only rule that is important is that you just take it easy on throttle for a few minutes after starting up cold.

Having worked on a few modern engines (Not Porsche) , I also suspect that some of the weird problems that people report (ex. stumbling at 2500RPM) may be related to the interactions of a faulty temp, pressure or antiknock sensor. There are just so many conditions (multiple temp, pressure sensors.. cam angle indicators) etc.. that an unexpected input might easily throw things off.. and in unexpected ways.

There are a multitude of sensors that are used to determine the exact fuel metering to each cylinder, the cam timing and spark timing. A hard failure of a sensor would be detected, however a sensor that is defective or maybe out of tolerance might cause havoc but not necessarily be flagged as a fault.

And do I trust a "technician" nice word for mechanic with a laptop? No not really... these guys are trained to run through "if then, then check this" scenarios.. And just swap parts. There are good and bad mechanics but they aren't engineers. It isn't until lots of unresolved problems are found in the field do the engineers get involved which in this kind of complex system is required to figure it it

One thing I've wondered about on the 2500 RPM hesitation problems is potentially the antiknock system interacting.. In general when it starts to detect detonation it is going to (among other things) retard the cam timing and mess with the air/fuel mixture. So a false interpretation could easily cause a hesitation as some report. Just a thought..

 

I haven't looked into your posts on the main "2500rpm hesitation" thread, but you should definitely chime in if you haven't already. I sincerely hope that the 6Speed community can rally together and bring this problem to Porsche's attention; enough to force them to address the problem.