LOL....guys, I'm not a Dr., those are just my first and middle name initials, and COLLIE is my last name

Car interiors use what we call a FINISHED leather (also known as Pigmented, Corrected, Protected, Painted). When hides to through a tannery, they are graded out. 94% of them are going to become a Finished hide, and only 6% will be what we call a pure aniline hide. Those 94% have too many imperfections in them to become an Aniline, so they are sanded out to remove those flaws, tumbled to make it soft, and then the grain pattern is embossed back in using a press (sanding destroys the natural grain pattern). Then a specialty paint is applied to the hide and its good to go.

A pure Aniline hide, by comparison, is 'clean' enough that it's just de-haired, tumbled and then vegetable dyed for color. All the natural markings are left intact. But there are two major downsides to these leathers, and thats why they are not used in car interiors. 1) They can, and usually do, absorb oily and chemical stains 2) they fade rapidly in direct sunlight. Even high end cars such as Aston Martin, Rolls and Bentley do not use Aniline leathers, they have what is known as a Semi-Aniline, which is a hybrid between the two types.

Porsche leather is pretty basic, it's not a particularly fine hide. Better cleaning/conditioning products come in different strengths, the one for Finished leather has to be chemically stronger as it has to penetrate the painted surface, Anilines ones are more mild.

In my store I only carry the LeatherMagic brand products as they are considered to be some of the best in the leather furniture industry, and I if you're interested an 8 oz bottle of Conditioner and 8 oz bottle of cleaner are $ 37.50 shipped (USA). PayPal to dcollie@keepingroom.com or you can buy them off Amazon, etc. That's what I use on my Porsche!

 

I know you're in the furniture business and not a Dr., but it's a funny nickname. You seem to have a lot of answers on subjects I've been looking for info on.

Maybe Dr. Leather?

Thanks again for the info!

 

I would expect the dealership to have at least a 100% markup on their leather repair.

 

Few years back I paid $100 to get my Cayman seat repaired

 

I recently had a very small hole in my C4S door panel "repaired" by aleather repair person with "18 years of experience".

I had the same thoughts as you; will it get worse, I always noticed it, etc.

When I brought it in, I was emphatic that if a repair would make it lookworse, I would be happy to leave it alone. More than once I had thatconversation prior to the "fix".

I was assured by the "expert" that it would look better, and alsohave the same matt luster as the original panel.

Fail on both criteria.

If you definitely don’t want to replace the damaged item, I would recommendleaving the smaller spots alone.

If you do choose to repair, make sure you actually see some examples ofrepaired leather the person has completed. As evidenced by the attached photos,I am certain there are much better leather repair men in the trade than the onewho made a mess of my car. You just have to look; I got lazy and took thedealer recommendation. My bad.

It shocked me, and I think even the dealer, that their "expert"would think spreading some goo on the door panel of a Porsche would beacceptable.

My damage was there at delivery so the dealer is fixing it for free. Afterthe botched repair job, the dealer is making good and ordering a new panel fromGermany.

Before and after pics attached. I should have left well enough alone.

 

A repair is only as good as the technician.

 

You're kidding me, right? How could any technician think that a repair like that was OK. It is not even acceptable on a Ford, let alone a Porsche. Well at least you are getting a new panel.

 

This is going to give me nightmares

I got an appointment for next friday so we will see

the imperfections are all on the center panel between the two rear seats --- I will see if they can just replace that maybe?

 

So are Porsche's " natural " and " special " leathers both a semi- aniline product, or a further " hybrid of a hybrid " and how should they be cared for vs the base finished leathers ?

Is it true all current auto leathers of all types are " clear coated " with an impermeable urethane for spill / stain barrier so all these auto store or high end leather products are for naught on intact surface and an industry wide wink wink $$$ scheme and one should just use a wet towel and or " vinyl" cleaner / UV blocker on them to wipe away abrasive dirt from clothing to prevent the damage to the clear coat that can only affect the leather if there IS a breach ? I've read that also.

 

The base leather is Finished (painted) the upgraded leathers are semi-anilines. Same care procedures.

The most important thing you can do to maintain your leather in any car, or in the home, is to simply wipe it down with a damp rag. Do it every time you wash the car - use a white one and look at how dirty it will be after wiping down your steering wheel. Add a little soap if necessary - not too much water and not too much soap.

As to cleaning and conditioning products, its like a motor oil thread. LOL. If you are going to use them, get the right ones. In 20+ years of selling residential leather furniture, I have seen the damage that unapproved leather cleaners and conditioners can do. Some are incompatible with the topcoat on the leather and can delaminate it, making the leather topcoat 'flake' off. I have never seen any damage caused by Leather Magic or Leather Master brand products, however. I personally use Leather Magic on all my leather products.

Dirt and oils off your body will deteriorate your leather over time. Keeping it cleaned and conditioned will greatly extend the useful life of the hide. Use water, or use the specialty products, your choice - but keep it clean either way.

 

Thanks for the answer !

my take ...assuming minimzing sun exposure and wearing minimally abrasive trousers vs mostly jeans* when driving ......then if one wipes the seats down with a damp white cloth weekly until the cloth looks clean or immed if something obv dirty touches it, and if one applies a UV blocking material like Vinyl X often , it should look as good as someone who goes though bottles of their favorite leather care products , over the same time .

* Put the jeans away ...slim cut pocketed sweat pants with elastic cuffed ankles in lots of nice seasonal colors are the latest all -day casual mens wear trend right now and make perfect leather -saving driving pants , besides being much more comfortable .

 

The problem with blue jeans is that denim is a dyed fabric, and besides being more abrasive than other kinds of pants the indigo dye will actually transfer to the leather, especially if the jeans are damp from water or sweat. That same 'washed' look everyone likes is nothing more than the dye washing out of the pants, and water and heat releases the dye. So, you get the same exact thing on a hot summer day when you are sweaty and go to sit in your light colored interior leather car - dye release and transfer. And since it is a dye, it colors the leather and cannot be removed - its there to stay. You're not going to see this much on a black interior car, but you surely will in a gray or beige one and -doG forbid, white. My wife wears a jeans all the time on the weekends, and she knows this happens so she keeps a terry cloth towel in her Audi SQ5 and puts it on the seat to avoid the dye transfer. Some brands leech more dye than others, too.

I myself would not put Vinyl X on my car interior. I've seen too many products ruin the topcoats on a hide and then you are replacing the interior. Use something known to be safe, or if you just can't bring yourself to buy a product, just use water and mild Ivory soap (the facial bar kind, not the dishwashing stuff). Porsche also makes leather care products - you can be sure those are tested and safe.

Let me tell you a little true story. I sell Hancock & Moore leather furniture in my store (www.keepingroom.com) because its the best made in the USA and the owners of the company take care of their customers, as do I. It's more expensive, in the same manner as a Porsche is to a Toyota, but you do get more - a lot more.

A husband and wife came into my store last summer and said "We'd like to buy a new sofa and loveseat, but not the Hancock and Moore brand because it hasn't held up so what else do you have to show us?" I was stunned...really, because while I have lesser brands, the H&M product is my A class tier product and I never have problems with it. She brought in a cushion off her H&M product to show to me and I could see the leather topcoat was compromised and flaking off, and her pieces were only 6 years old. "This is a 25-year-old lifespan product" I told her, "That's abnormal" and I started asking her what they used on the leather to clean and condition it. She said "Just what the selling dealer gave us" and it was a Guardsman product (she didn't buy this group from my store, but up the road at a competitor). Turns out, the selling dealer sold her a leather 'protection' program which involved sealing the two pieces in Guardsman product and sending them home with a maintenance kit. She went back to them when the hide delaminated and both the store and Guardsman denied the claim (they always do) claiming the leather was defective - which was not true. The Guardsman product was incompatible with the leather on their sofa/loveseat and caused the deterioration. $ 9,000 worth of leather furniture ruined because the wrong product was applied to the hides.

They decided to re-order another Hancock and Moore grouping from my store after I explained to them what happened to their furniture. I asked them what they were going to do with their old pieces and they said "Give them to Salvation Army" when the new pieces arrived. A couple of months later I was at the Hancock & Moore factory talking with Jimmy Moore, one of the owners - he knows EVERYTHING about leather furniture at age 78, and I told him about these pieces and reiterated the story. He said "Get the old pieces down here (Hickory NC) and let me have a look at them, see if I can touch them up or something rather than them disposing of them", and so they did ship them back on my suggestion. Jimmy called me up and said "Yes, we ran some tests and its definitely the product used on the leather that ruined it, and I can't repair it - its too far gone. But I'm going to put all new leather on their pieces are no charge for them to help them out, I'll have them done in two weeks." And so he did. My customers were stunned as that probably cost Jimmy $ 2,000 out of pocket to re-leather those pieces but he's a good guy, and they put them in their downstairs media room when they came back, looking brand new with a complete re-hide and new cushion cores. You can believe me when I tell you they will only use Leather Magic products on all their leather pieces now.

I've seen firsthand the damage unapproved products can do to leather - soap and water will never harm it (used in moderation, never saturate leather with water, keep it damp - not wet), however it will leave it looking a bit 'dry'. Use a quality known leather care product or the Porsche-approved ones and you won't have any issues.

 

Great thread. Thanks for all the useful info DRC. As for the vinyl dash, door panels , etc, do you recommend the same thing? Moist cloth (warm water) and it's good to go?

Any recommendations ?

 

Vinyl is nothing more than a form of plastic, and when you think about it, how do you clean plastic bits? Some form of soap and water, yes? That's all you need. There's a whole industry built up over these 'car care products' and at the end of the day, most of it is there just to make you feel better about taking care of your car. Keeping it clean and free of dirt and oils is far more important than 'protecting' it. You can put glossers on the vinyl if you like the look (i.e., ArmorAll and other silicone based products) but that's for you moreso than 'protecting' the surface. Just my opinion.....

 

thanks for the advice regarding Vinylex and similar products...so sounds like using top tier leather products ( beyond common sense damp cloth water/ Ivory wipe downs) is really more about " doing no harm " to the urethane " clear coat " on auto leather, since real treating of the hide by these products means the " vinyl sofa cover " - coating has been breeched or worn away ....which I understand can be confirmed if a tiny drop of water is absorbed vs beaded when applied to the surface