991.2 from a 991s
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991.2 from a 991s
Hello group. As some may know from recent discussions I had a 991S convertible and I took for a campaign this Friday and end up leaving on the 991.2.
I'm weak I know...
So the 991s was PDK with KN filters and x-pipe. Besides that was pretty stock. 991.2 you has PDK, GT steering wheel,sport exhaust and sport chrono package, Among others.
Here are some insights after a couple of miles:
PDK
It seems much improved from the old transmission on the 991. It also seems better tailored for a turbo Engine as it works the gears quickly helping to hide turbo lag and seems to be easier to keep the revs in optimal range given steep power and torque curves. No kick down but at mid course of the gas pedal you will see dropping 2-4 gears on a snapshot. Hold on to your necks...
curiously, for the first time I heard someone from Porsche being honest about the issues with the 991PDK, recognizing the jerkiness and hesitation and also stated "it's like that" and apparently there's not much to do about it (lawyers in the house?)
Engine:
Whenever someone says that there is no turbo lag, it's not physically possible. It can be subjective how much perceived the lag but it's there. Between the S and base models that's the most essential difference. The turbo lag happens between 900 and 1200 I would say on the base model and possibly 915 - 1150 on the S model. On the S model is far less perceivable and less annoying than on the base model. Good thing you have a GT wheel, where you can have your individual settings keeping the sport mode, exhaust always on and the annoying auto stop off. By the way you cannot keep auto stop off like on the 991 anymore, always goes back on after restart. this engine in combination with the PDK has a more harmonious set up. I see myself using the power range far more often then on the outgoing 3.8 L.
Engine noise,
Simply put, the sport exhaust is a must have. I preferred a base 991 to a S model because of color (Miami blue on the S, very personal color choice) and lack off sport exhaust in another white S model. The sound that it makes is far more harmonious than any aftermarket you can think of. The pops and crackles are more obvious and actually described on the manual as part of the sport mode. I think the combination of the sport exhaust with sports chrono package on a 991.2 is quite interesting. If I could, I would have bought S model for sure but once the tunings come out, their differences will be even smaller. This is very similar to the 997.2 where the 3.6 L versus a 3.8 L was the main difference besides some other details regarding the brakes and finishing.
If you were in doubt between a S and base model, I see that on the 991.1 where the difference was significant but on the 991.2 it is very difficult received to perceive the 50 hp difference. Perceivable is the behavior of the variable geometry turbine on the S as I mentioned above regarding the lag. The front brakes are slightly better on the S model and the rear brakes are the same. All the rest depends on the optionals as apparently the base model can be had almost as the same as the S model.
This reflects Porsches change in strategy, where The outgoing 991 apparently sold close to 90% on S model and they wanted to reverse that for the current model.
PCM
Completely different game. The sluggish navigation Zoom in and out is gone. My car could not follow curves on navigation, Even on normal speed and this is also gone.
The Apple CarPlay works only when you plug to the car but works very well. You have to choose BT or Apple play, cannot have both at the same time (I.e calls from car play or BT, same for audio, Porsche apps go through the car wifi) . Lots of interesting features like being able to dictate texts and sending and having the car dictated it for you are very interesting. The apps are still limited but I think the future is promising in that sense.
I'll write more as I go. Basic mods are clear side blinkers, tuning the engine (which may increase perception of turbo lag, I know) and maybe high flow air filter, but the new air filter is very weird in shape, so I don't know if it's coming anytime soon.
Cheers!
Pardon the quality of the pics, my little one took some of them
I'm weak I know...
So the 991s was PDK with KN filters and x-pipe. Besides that was pretty stock. 991.2 you has PDK, GT steering wheel,sport exhaust and sport chrono package, Among others.
Here are some insights after a couple of miles:
PDK
It seems much improved from the old transmission on the 991. It also seems better tailored for a turbo Engine as it works the gears quickly helping to hide turbo lag and seems to be easier to keep the revs in optimal range given steep power and torque curves. No kick down but at mid course of the gas pedal you will see dropping 2-4 gears on a snapshot. Hold on to your necks...
curiously, for the first time I heard someone from Porsche being honest about the issues with the 991PDK, recognizing the jerkiness and hesitation and also stated "it's like that" and apparently there's not much to do about it (lawyers in the house?)
Engine:
Whenever someone says that there is no turbo lag, it's not physically possible. It can be subjective how much perceived the lag but it's there. Between the S and base models that's the most essential difference. The turbo lag happens between 900 and 1200 I would say on the base model and possibly 915 - 1150 on the S model. On the S model is far less perceivable and less annoying than on the base model. Good thing you have a GT wheel, where you can have your individual settings keeping the sport mode, exhaust always on and the annoying auto stop off. By the way you cannot keep auto stop off like on the 991 anymore, always goes back on after restart. this engine in combination with the PDK has a more harmonious set up. I see myself using the power range far more often then on the outgoing 3.8 L.
Engine noise,
Simply put, the sport exhaust is a must have. I preferred a base 991 to a S model because of color (Miami blue on the S, very personal color choice) and lack off sport exhaust in another white S model. The sound that it makes is far more harmonious than any aftermarket you can think of. The pops and crackles are more obvious and actually described on the manual as part of the sport mode. I think the combination of the sport exhaust with sports chrono package on a 991.2 is quite interesting. If I could, I would have bought S model for sure but once the tunings come out, their differences will be even smaller. This is very similar to the 997.2 where the 3.6 L versus a 3.8 L was the main difference besides some other details regarding the brakes and finishing.
If you were in doubt between a S and base model, I see that on the 991.1 where the difference was significant but on the 991.2 it is very difficult received to perceive the 50 hp difference. Perceivable is the behavior of the variable geometry turbine on the S as I mentioned above regarding the lag. The front brakes are slightly better on the S model and the rear brakes are the same. All the rest depends on the optionals as apparently the base model can be had almost as the same as the S model.
This reflects Porsches change in strategy, where The outgoing 991 apparently sold close to 90% on S model and they wanted to reverse that for the current model.
PCM
Completely different game. The sluggish navigation Zoom in and out is gone. My car could not follow curves on navigation, Even on normal speed and this is also gone.
The Apple CarPlay works only when you plug to the car but works very well. You have to choose BT or Apple play, cannot have both at the same time (I.e calls from car play or BT, same for audio, Porsche apps go through the car wifi) . Lots of interesting features like being able to dictate texts and sending and having the car dictated it for you are very interesting. The apps are still limited but I think the future is promising in that sense.
I'll write more as I go. Basic mods are clear side blinkers, tuning the engine (which may increase perception of turbo lag, I know) and maybe high flow air filter, but the new air filter is very weird in shape, so I don't know if it's coming anytime soon.
Cheers!
Pardon the quality of the pics, my little one took some of them
Last edited by John McLane; Sep 25, 2016 at 08:34 AM.
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I'm starting to like that steering wheel.
What about PASM on the base 991.2? Is it now standard? I think I see the little suspension button in center console.
Is that GT silver?
I think it's a good thing that they really improved the base 911, that's important to do.
What about PASM on the base 991.2? Is it now standard? I think I see the little suspension button in center console.
Is that GT silver?
I think it's a good thing that they really improved the base 911, that's important to do.
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Originally Posted by chance6
I'm starting to like that steering wheel.
What about PASM on the base 991.2? Is it now standard? I think I see the little suspension button in center console.
Is that GT silver?
I think it's a good thing that they really improved the base 911, that's important to do.
What about PASM on the base 991.2? Is it now standard? I think I see the little suspension button in center console.
Is that GT silver?
I think it's a good thing that they really improved the base 911, that's important to do.
GT silver, yes, not that expensive anymore, shows really well in the light and the combo reminded me of the RS spyder. The Miami blue and lava orange are not metallic and cost 3k, I find that outrageous for "exclusivity". Odd colors On a GT (3,2,, lambo, gts etc ) car I understand, on a cab not so much.
The steering wheel is a nice piece of engineering, very well finished. This one is heated, slightly thicker. All models in the showroom had this GT wheel. Download the good to know app and check the mode 17 settings, cool stuff. Porsche just reached 2010, congrats!
I think the next generation will again have a bigger gap between the base and S, perhaps an added electric engine.
Last edited by John McLane; Sep 25, 2016 at 09:35 AM.
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When you push this car, it goes ballistic... Its a different experience from the 3.8L. As has been with the last decade, their cars are getting easier to drive fast, this one is no exception. I absolutely love the boost feature, wonderful 20 seconds of bliss. The steering wheel **** makes it so much easier to use the sport mode all the time. With the individual setting, I leave sport exhaust and mode, *** off and you can even choose if the wing up or down. I leave the suspension in normal, as my back dont agree on hard bumps all the time.
It does need a tuning, there's more power from this engine....
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Having said that, I've spent a fair bit of seat time in both variants (coupe) and both are amazing cars to drive. I doubt many would feel that they didn't have a fantastic Porsche if they chose the base.
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I go for winter tires, as it's mostly flat here. My wife's GL has all seasons and is not as reliable, particularly breaking in low speeds where 4WD makes not a lot of difference. Nw, winter tires on a C4 would be nice....The only cab C4 was a S close to 160k, rather cough it up for a turbo base...
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Beautiful car and thanks for sharing. I don't quite agree with the above statement though. For those wanting better sport handling dynamics (not that the base is a slouch), the S has rear wheel steering and SPASM -20mm, both options not being available on the base. Also there is a differential option on the S not available on the base.
Having said that, I've spent a fair bit of seat time in both variants (coupe) and both are amazing cars to drive. I doubt many would feel that they didn't have a fantastic Porsche if they chose the base.
Having said that, I've spent a fair bit of seat time in both variants (coupe) and both are amazing cars to drive. I doubt many would feel that they didn't have a fantastic Porsche if they chose the base.
Rear wheel steering is optional, a tempting one, normally part of the sport package. PVT I had in my prior car, didnt quite made a difference. I think the gap between the two is much narrower. The 991.1 I would not have as a base, I think the 991.2 is tolerable. The everyday experience is very similar, and the base car drops the hammer with authority. I had no intention to trade cars, but the base 991.2 is better than the 991.1 S in several topics.
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Rear wheel steering is optional, a tempting one, normally part of the sport package. PVT I had in my prior car, didnt quite made a difference. I think the gap between the two is much narrower. The 991.1 I would not have as a base, I think the 991.2 is tolerable. The everyday experience is very similar, and the base car drops the hammer with authority. I had no intention to trade cars, but the base 991.2 is better than the 991.1 S in several topics.
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[QUOTE=John McLane;4564235]
Engine:
Whenever someone says that there is no turbo lag, it's not physically possible. It can be subjective how much perceived the lag but it's there. Between the S and base models that's the most essential difference. The turbo lag happens between 900 and 1200 I would say on the base model and possibly 915 - 1150 on the S model. On the S model is far less perceivable and less annoying than on the base model. Good thing you have a GT wheel, where you can have your individual settings keeping the sport mode, exhaust always on and the annoying auto stop off. By the way you cannot keep auto stop off like on the 991 anymore, always goes back on after restart. this engine in combination with the PDK has a more harmonious set up. I see myself using the power range far more often then on the outgoing 3.8 L.
Good review John but it should be noted that the lag between base and s model on the 911 models will be exactly the same because they have exactly the same engine and both have single scroll turbos (base and s models do not have the Variable turbine geometry turbo that the 911 TT and boxster S have). The only difference between base and s 911 engines are the compressor wheel (something like 2mm larger on the s).
The 718 base and S have different driving characteristics because they have different displacements so the S rely less on boost on boost to move and the S have VTG.
Congrats for your new car.
Engine:
Whenever someone says that there is no turbo lag, it's not physically possible. It can be subjective how much perceived the lag but it's there. Between the S and base models that's the most essential difference. The turbo lag happens between 900 and 1200 I would say on the base model and possibly 915 - 1150 on the S model. On the S model is far less perceivable and less annoying than on the base model. Good thing you have a GT wheel, where you can have your individual settings keeping the sport mode, exhaust always on and the annoying auto stop off. By the way you cannot keep auto stop off like on the 991 anymore, always goes back on after restart. this engine in combination with the PDK has a more harmonious set up. I see myself using the power range far more often then on the outgoing 3.8 L.
Good review John but it should be noted that the lag between base and s model on the 911 models will be exactly the same because they have exactly the same engine and both have single scroll turbos (base and s models do not have the Variable turbine geometry turbo that the 911 TT and boxster S have). The only difference between base and s 911 engines are the compressor wheel (something like 2mm larger on the s).
The 718 base and S have different driving characteristics because they have different displacements so the S rely less on boost on boost to move and the S have VTG.
Congrats for your new car.
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The SA and chief mechanic both told me the S model has vvt and slightly bigger turbo blades. I tried both back to back and I perceived more lag on the base. Maybe my perception but the SA confirmed my impression. Regardless, I see ECU tuning being awesome for the base model... mcchip had a piggyback and flash products, once breakin is over I'm going for it
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The SA and chief mechanic both told me the S model has vvt and slightly bigger turbo blades. I tried both back to back and I perceived more lag on the base. Maybe my perception but the SA confirmed my impression. Regardless, I see ECU tuning being awesome for the base model... mcchip had a piggyback and flash products, once breakin is over I'm going for it
Base 911 tune from Mc Chip gains 60hp (430hp). I suspect Carrera S turbo Swap will be popular:
http://rennlist.com/forums/991/94698...-ecu-tune.html
From the Porsche press release: The completely new three liter, twin-turbocharged engine generation makes driving
the 2017 911 Carrera models an even more pleasurable and engaging experience.
Operating with up to 13.1 psi (0.9 bar) of boost pressure, the 911 Carrera
develops 370 horsepower, while the powerplant in 911 Carrera S now delivers 420
horsepower using up to 16 psi (1.1 bar) of boost pressure. This represents a 20
horsepower improvement over the respective predecessors. The 50 horsepower
increase of 911 Carrera S compared to the 911 Carrera comes from
turbochargers with larger impellers, a model-specific exhaust system, and a
different tune for the engine management system.
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So I left the car this weekend at the dealership for a PCM update(!). They left me with a 2017 911 S coupe. Fully loaded with all the good stuff PDCC, GT wheel, sunroof delete, sport exhaust etc. I have to confirm if it has rear steering as well (sport package), didn't drive enough to pay attention, might have as it has a different behavior in curves... edit- my SA confirmed, tried some more curves, it's eerie. My next car must have it, hopefully will be standard by then...,
The car behavior confirms what I read about the stiffer dampers when compared to the cab S or not. The cab S that I tried has a far softer suspension when compared to the coupe. I don't think that the difference existed with the 991.1, my prior car had fairly stiff suspension compared to the 991.2 S model that I tried. It seems that for this MY the discrepancy is greater coupe versus cab.
The car is a beast to drive, I can only imagine how the GTS will be... if your back allows, not my case....
The car behavior confirms what I read about the stiffer dampers when compared to the cab S or not. The cab S that I tried has a far softer suspension when compared to the coupe. I don't think that the difference existed with the 991.1, my prior car had fairly stiff suspension compared to the 991.2 S model that I tried. It seems that for this MY the discrepancy is greater coupe versus cab.
The car is a beast to drive, I can only imagine how the GTS will be... if your back allows, not my case....
Last edited by John McLane; Oct 22, 2016 at 09:04 PM.